$5 NLHE Full Ring: Did I Miss Value?

pokerstars - $0.05 Ante $0.01 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

BB: 378.4 BB (VPIP: 12.50, PFR: 9.29, 3Bet Preflop: 5.51, hands: 281)
UTG: 230.2 BB (VPIP: 51.80, PFR: 25.90, 3Bet Preflop: 10.71, Hands: 141)
UTG+1: 487 BB (VPIP: 18.18, PFR: 12.44, 3Bet Preflop: 4.55, Hands: 211)
MP: 136.2 BB (VPIP: 28.36, PFR: 13.43, 3Bet Preflop: 3.23, Hands: 68)
MP+1: 102.8 BB (VPIP: 12.32, PFR: 11.33, 3Bet Preflop: 5.05, Hands: 206)
MP+2: 262.2 BB (VPIP: 13.66, PFR: 6.21, 3Bet Preflop: 4.29, Hands: 161)
Hero (CO): 165 BB
BTN: 250 BB (VPIP: 18.84, PFR: 11.59, 3Bet Preflop: 3.57, Hands: 70)
SB: 250 BB (VPIP: 13.27, PFR: 10.62, 3Bet Preflop: 2.38, Hands: 115)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB, 9 players post ante of 0.2 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 3.2 BB) Hero has Kh Ks
UTG calls 1 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, BB raises to 12 BB, UTG calls 11 BB, Hero raises to 35 BB, BB calls 23 BB, UTG calls 23 BB

Flop : (107.2 BB, 3 players) 4h 4d Qd
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets 129.8 BB and is all-in, fold, fold

Hero wins 102.8 BB


I felt like a shove was my only option with an SPR of 1.2.
I figured one of them must have AQ,AK,TT+ in their range, and thought i might get a call from someone putting me on AK..

I think jam and hope for a call is the best spot here?

I am shoving here or betting an amount that is the same effectively as shoving for example , I might just bet the pot or close to it here . I might raise to 4 or 5 bbs originally , but the games I play in are loose and limpers don't like to fold

Yeah, I always have a standard raise generally. at the lower levels you can profitably raise 4-5x with strong hands, but I dont like getting into bad habits, ESPECIALLY with the amount of regs at these tables..

the preflop raise to 3bb is too small imo with the limper present (not to mention the antes). i'd be popping your whole range to 5 bbs with one limper, and add an additional bb for each additional limper.

on the flop a shove is fine, but you could also bet small (40bb's) with your whole range (intending to call if you induce a shove of course). it's a way ahead/way behind board so protection isn't paramount.

your 4bet size is too small, 45BB may be better.

I agree with the_wonk and tomnovember. A smaller bet will probably get more value. I would do 38BBs. Someone with AQ or a smaller pocket will be more tempted to lose all their money. Some people are opposite to this, but the general population gets tempted by smaller bets.

I think i miscalculated tbh... I thought i would get one caller to the flop (you get a lot of limp/fold or raise/fold at this level), if i had considered the two going to the flop, i should have threebet more pre, which makes the SPR a little closer to 1, which means its easier to get a call on the flop...

TomLeach said:

Yeah, I always have a standard raise generally. at the lower levels you can profitably raise 4-5x with strong hands, but I dont like getting into bad habits, ESPECIALLY with the amount of regs at these tables..

Click to expand...

I personally wouldn't classify it as a bad habit. You want to exploit the mistakes your opponents are doing. If they will limp and call 5x, then you should be raising that much until you find an amount they won't call. And I'm not saying, only raise X with strong, and Y with weaker. But mix it up more in the appropriate places. It will increase your winrate.

Well we know we usually are ahead on the flop. So don't mind the shove but yeah you will never get any value if you want some.

Only way to get value is to give them a free card (of course is a bit risky but thats how it is). Or maybe make a weak looking tiny value bet on the flop instead of the shove like 30 bucks or something. But then if the turn card is an then you might end up kicking yourself.

So depends on how greedy you are to extract more value .. :icon_rend