$5 NLHE Full Ring: Got shoved on the river while holding a set. Any suggestions

$5 NL HE Full Ring: Got shoved on the river while holding a set. Any suggestions

I was reviewing some of July's hands. This hand really seemed to piss me off. Can't get this out of my head. Quite desperate to know what my villain had. This was unusual case where I have folded a set. I believe I made a mistake on the turn by checking. I tried to induce bluff by checking on the turn, which backfired when the villain checked back to see the river card. On the river, I tried to bet out and get some value out of my set until villain just shoved against me. My range on him was he either had AK who was going for a draw but ended up having a straight or he flopped it from the start. Set on the flop is good majority of the time and even if he flopped a flush, I would still have good showdown equity of 33% to pair the board. But on the river, I figured that set is no longer the best possible hand when there's a flush and straight board. Everytime I faced these awkward spots, I would call often and get crushed. Since I didn't knew where I stand with my set, I decided to give benefit of a doubt to my villain and just fold. But when I review this hand again, it just bothers me for some reason. I'm thinking if this could've been a bluff and I made a bad laydown. Anyone have any advices or opinion on this hand? Since this hand was rush, I have no information on the villain since my hem only had 2 hands on him.

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP3 ($5.07)
CO ($3.97)
Button ($9.75)
SB ($1.62)
BB ($4.84)
UTG ($4.33)
UTG+1 ($1.92)
MP1 ($5)
Hero (MP2) ($6.05)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J , J
3 folds, Hero bets $0.15, 1 fold, CO calls $0.15, 3 folds

Flop: ($0.37) J , 3 , 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.20, CO calls $0.20

Turn: ($0.77) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

River: ($0.77) 10 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.40, CO raises $3.62 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: $1.57

Your flop bet is too small. I would bet more like $.30 for two reasons: you don't want to give odds for a spade to outdraw you, and you flopped a monster so you want to start building a pot. Even if villain flopped a flush, you still have very good equity. I agree that you should have bet the turn as well. By betting aggressively, you can be more confident in villains holdings after he shoves over you.

However, after villain checked the turn, it looks like he was drawing. Its hard to tell if you made the correct lay down without any reads though, so I can't help you there.

Don't check that turn and don't fold sets unless it's like a 4 flush / straight board and even then only occasionally.

Your set of jacks is undoubtedly good here well more often than needed to make the call +Ev.

WVHillbilly said:

Don't check that turn and don't fold sets unless it's like a 4 flush / straight board and even then only occasionally.

Your set of jacks is undoubtedly good here well more often than needed to make the call +Ev.

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After reading your thread of "what are you, an idiot?", I'm really thinking if my villain just pulled the move against me. If we know the villain by any chance who turned out to bluff me, would he qualify for stack-killing bluff who got my set to fold?

Yeah it would qualify but it would be hard for him to believe you actually folded a set there. It's hard for me to believe it even after seeing the hh!

Definitely bet bigger on wet boards (lots of draws) always bet the turn on boards like this with a hand as strong as a set and never fold that river.

Only ever fold sets against passive nits on super scary boards. Serious.

I'd bet the pot on the flop for max vaule + villan mite put us on bluff.

I would of kept on vaule betting the turn. Dont beat ur self up by not. Checking to induce villan to bet is a good move but at micros it's probs best just to nut peddle.

I'd called the river shove here. Even if he had a flopped flush or caught up w/ AK on the river, by not betting the turn + firing out on the river, ur river bet looks quite weak to villan? Im guessin he jus shoved bluffed to try make u fold.

(hows it goin neways dude? long time no-talk on MSN)

LuckyChippy said:

Definitely bet bigger on wet boards (lots of draws) always bet the turn on boards like this with a hand as strong as a set and never fold that river.

Only ever fold sets against passive nits on super scary boards. Serious.

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Hard to do, sometimes, but I think the above is correct. (The results tend to involve the facepalm, tho.) It is hard to hold on to the set on the river in this case.

This was a great example of a super scary board, although the checked turn would have reassured me about the flush. (Your check told the other guy a little something something, too.) No bet on the turn was the big mistake here -- the turn bet represents confidence, but a check after a flop bet is weak. It tells the other guy you are not at all sure of your hand and gives him a free card if he wants and an opportunity at the river. No free cards on a board like that. Keep the pressure on.

I'd bet that the villain had AK, though -- with one spade. He played it a bit too light preflop, as I am wont to do. (There are those who shove with AK and those who want to see the flop.)

It's also a good example of why you want to have a sufficient bankroll -- you need to be able to make those bets and calls comfortably. I'd bet you factored in that you were ahead so far and didn't really want to lose your profits.

Was this Rush?

ukaliks said:

I'd bet the pot on the flop for max vaule + villan mite put us on bluff.

I would of kept on vaule betting the turn. Dont beat ur self up by not. Checking to induce villan to bet is a good move but at micros it's probs best just to nut peddle.

I'd called the river shove here. Even if he had a flopped flush or caught up w/ AK on the river, by not betting the turn + firing out on the river, ur river bet looks quite weak to villan? Im guessin he jus shoved bluffed to try make u fold.

(hows it goin neways dude? long time no-talk on MSN)

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Hey buddy. Just had a rough night yesterday. I still got trouble continuing longer with the session when I face bad beats. I quitted my cash session in less than 5 minutes after losing 2 buy-ins. Watched 1976 movie Taxi Driver starring Robert DeNiro. I hope I have a good session today.

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($1.57)
MP2 ($4.73)
MP3 ($2.10)
CO ($0.85)
Hero (Button) ($5.55)
SB ($3.85)
BB ($3.16)
UTG ($4.46)
UTG+1 ($2.41)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 10 , 10
UTG calls $0.05, UTG+1 bets $0.22, 4 folds, Hero calls $0.22, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.17

Flop: ($0.73) 9 , 9 , 9 (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $0.50, Hero raises $1.75, 1 fold, UTG+1 raises $1.69 (All-In), Hero calls $0.44

Turn: ($5.11) Q (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($5.11) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $5.11

Results:
Hero had 10 , 10 (full house, nines over tens).
UTG+1 had Q , A (full house, nines over Queens).
Outcome: UTG+1 won $4.77

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+1 ($9.45)
MP1 ($2.30)
MP2 ($5.09)
Hero (MP3) ($5)
CO ($3.70)
Button ($2.04)
SB ($2.39)
BB ($4.33)
UTG ($9.27)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K , K
2 folds, MP1 bets $0.15, 1 fold, Hero raises $5 (All-In), 4 folds, MP1 calls $2.15 (All-In)

Flop: ($4.67) 4 , 7 , 5 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: ($4.67) 10 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($4.67) 9 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $4.67

Results:
MP1 had 5 , 5 (three of a kind, fives).
Hero had K , K (one pair, Kings).
Outcome: MP1 won $4.36

And then I got dealt Kings again on my other table, decided to do same thing. This time, I got called by pocket Aces and lost 1 full buy-in. 2 bad beats from short-stack pos, and 1 full buy-in from cooler?

You did the standard donky thing of shaking when you hit a monster, trying to 'trap' because you're too scared to bet.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if villain did the same thing with a flush. This kind of play works so little that you lose huge amounts with this strategy. Stop it.

pokerlovesme said:

Hey buddy. Just had a rough night yesterday. I still got trouble continuing longer with the session when I face bad beats. I quitted my cash session in less than 5 minutes after losing 2 buy-ins. Watched 1976 movie Taxi Driver starring Robert DeNiro. I hope I have a good session today.

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($1.57)
MP2 ($4.73)
MP3 ($2.10)
CO ($0.85)
Hero (Button) ($5.55)
SB ($3.85)
BB ($3.16)
UTG ($4.46)
UTG+1 ($2.41)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 10

, 10

UTG calls $0.05, UTG+1 bets $0.22, 4 folds, Hero calls $0.22, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.17

Flop: ($0.73) 9

, 9

, 9

(3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $0.50, Hero raises $1.75, 1 fold, UTG+1 raises $1.69 (All-In), Hero calls $0.44

Turn: ($5.11) Q

(2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($5.11) 4

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $5.11

Results:
Hero had 10

, 10

(full house, nines over tens).
UTG+1 had Q

, A

(full house, nines over Queens).
Outcome: UTG+1 won $4.77

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+1 ($9.45)
MP1 ($2.30)
MP2 ($5.09)
Hero (MP3) ($5)
CO ($3.70)
Button ($2.04)
SB ($2.39)
BB ($4.33)
UTG ($9.27)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K

, K

2 folds, MP1 bets $0.15, 1 fold, Hero raises $5 (All-In), 4 folds, MP1 calls $2.15 (All-In)

Flop: ($4.67) 4

, 7

, 5

(2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: ($4.67) 10

(2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($4.67) 9

(2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $4.67

Results:
MP1 had 5

, 5

(three of a kind, fives).
Hero had K

, K

(one pair, Kings).
Outcome: MP1 won $4.36

And then I got dealt Kings again on my other table, decided to do same thing. This time, I got called by pocket Aces and lost 1 full buy-in. 2 bad beats from short-stack pos, and 1 full buy-in from cooler?

Click to expand...

Oi oi m8 Taxi Driver is a wkd film like, mite go watch that round friends house later on .
Dam 2 coolers. Dont worry too much about it. Lookin at them 2 HH I dont think u did anything wrong.
W/ TT u get villan to comite his whole stack w/ AQ high on a flop of 999 lol. Jus him sucking out. Sh!t happens.
Unlucky w/ KK aswell. U shove and he calls w/ 55 lol. Wut a tool. U'll win them races (KK v 55) more offten.

Tlk to ya soon on MSN dude

pokerlovesme said:

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K

, K

2 folds, MP1 bets $0.15, 1 fold, Hero raises $5 (All-In), 4 folds, MP1 calls $2.15 (All-In)

Flop: ($4.67) 4

, 7

, 5

(2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: ($4.67) 10

(2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($4.67) 9

(2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $4.67

Results:
MP1 had 5

, 5

(three of a kind, fives).
Hero had K

, K

(one pair, Kings).
Outcome: MP1 won $4.36

And then I got dealt Kings again on my other table, decided to do same thing. This time, I got called by pocket Aces and lost 1 full buy-in. 2 bad beats from short-stack pos, and 1 full buy-in from cooler?

Click to expand...

I was going to say wtf with the shove. Saw it worked and thought ok it worked this time, then read the comment and lolled.

Also can I point out that you're less than 1% to flop a flush in a hand. It can almost be discounted.