$5 NLHE Full Ring: Funny hand, cbet sizing question

Hero (SB) ($5.79)
BB ($4.48)
UTG ($3.77)
UTG+1 ($2.65)
MP1 ($4.72)
MP2 ($7.23)
CO ($6.50)
Button ($4.80)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q , K
2 folds, MP1 bets $0.12, 1 fold, CO calls $0.12, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.50, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.38, CO calls $0.38

Flop: ($1.55) Q , 7 , 4 (3 players)
Hero bets $1.16, MP1 raises to $2.32, CO raises to $6 (All-In), Hero folds, MP1 calls $1.90 (All-In)

Turn: ($11.15) A (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($11.15) 3 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $11.15 | Rake: $0.55

MP1 is 31 / 21 / 1.7% 3bet over 224 hands, looks a bit fishy.
CO is 15 / 12 / 7.2% 3bet over 872 hands, looks decent.

No notes on either.

Flop - CO has a set here like 100% of the time, so I GTFO from the hand.

1. 3bet OK? MP1 folds to 3bet 75% but small sample and all 3bets were from me
2. Value cbet sizing vs. these two?

Results below:

Correction: He actually folded to 3bets 100% of the time, 75% includes this hand.

Pre is fine if your image is right. If you've been 3betting a lot I'd rather fold.

You can get by with a smaller cbet though. Just in general you should be cbetting smaller in 3bet pots especially with 2 callers because if you want to it's easy to get it in and if you want to bet/fold you save some $$s. I'd probably bet closer to 1/2 pot here, but certainly no more than $1.

I kind of wanted to keep the target (MP1) in and get rid of CO if he missed. I feared that he might stay in with such great odds (pot + my cbet + call from MP1) and then the chance someone hits something better doubles.

Probably faulty reasoning right there :I

He's pretty unlikely to stick around with anything you beat even for say .80. He's just not getting the right odds to call hoping to hit on the turn.

Thx, yeah I didn't think about his range enough.

I thought he probably targets MP1 here too so he might be a bit wide in BTN but when he called my 3bet he probably has mostly a PP and setmines, which gives him only 2 outs... anything else is not so great on the flop except probably QJh (if he calls a 3bet with that, which is doubtful but he is the BTN so maybe).

bet much smaller on this type of board in 3-bet pots to get calls from 88-JJ type hands.

I think the squeeze is fine. If we can reasonably expect a fold from the reg we pick up great FE by blocking QQ/KK/AK/AQ, and if he expects us to be squeezing light he probably has some smaller PPs and Aces that don't dominate us. The important thing is to KNOW whether he's flatting us light or not when he flats 3bet (because if he's not we're dead and should usually fold -- this time it appears he is).

Cbet like half-pot because it's 3-way and usually the reg will fold and the fish will flat way worse, so you can value-town him to death on further streets.

Fold to the 3bet shove is easy as hell.

3bet for value pre is solid.
+1 to betting the flop smaller.
Good fold the COs range destroys us.

Thx, will adjust cbet sizing vs multiple opponents. I actually tended to make it bigger to chase away draws

It's not so much aboiut it being multiway although that is a factor I generally use to make my bet sizing smaller. It's mostly that it's a 3bet pot and your putting half of MPs stack in.

3bet pots we generally c-bet much smaller as there are less draws and we can usually get stacks in without huge bets + raises.

Got it now, thanks

I was thinking incorrectly here, more focused on getting CO out of this than MP1's stack size. I kind of assumed MP1 calls anyway unless he really has complete air. But really smaller sizing accomplishes the same thing and if someone hit a set (or two) I lose less on the flop.

Also, "less draws" is a novel approach for me, to be honest I always saw quite a few SCs in these places if fish are involved but nits always have pocket pairs here. TAGs I am not 100% sure, probably heavily skewed towards PPs too.

If the CO has us beat he's not folding no matter what our bet sizing is.

A more extreme example of the 3bet pot thing I was talking about would be 4bet pots. The normal c-bet sizes in non-deep 4bet pots are 1/3 to 1/5 pot. A half pot bet would be insanely big.

In 5NL 4bets are almost always shoves so this is not a big issue but it is worth knowing, just in case.

LD1977 said:

Thx, will adjust cbet sizing vs multiple opponents. I actually tended to make it bigger to chase away draws

Click to expand...

Chasing off draws is completely impossible multiway because regardless of sizing if you have two or more opponents schooled together you automatically have odds to draw. That's why spec hands are so powerful in multiway pots.

You get more value out of betting smaller, because calling ranges will be very inelastic multiway since no one has the balls to float or bluff-raise a multiway pot (unless they're terrible or Phil Ivey), so that if people stick around they have something. So, by betting smaller and smaller fractions of the pot on each street you get to extract some thin value out of the pot, whereas by betting big you force people to show strong ranges and no bluffs.

Great stuff, thanks! I like this kind of explanations (as opposed to "bet, bet, shove" or "bet 1/2 pot flop and 1/3 pot turn" ).