$5 NLHE Full Ring: Fold pkt kings pre-flop here?

Suited Frenzy

Suited Frenzy

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$5 NL HE Full Ring: Fold pkt kings pre-flop here?

I had only been @ the tbl for 10 hands & played only 1. There was 1 limper in front of me & I was in the cut-off position & raised 5x the BB to $.25, button & SB both fold. The BB 3-bets me to $.75 & the limper folds & I think for a few seconds & then shove, so it wasn't an 'insta-shove' but close. BB?

I have folded pkt kings pre-flop plenty of times in both tournies & ring games but after seeing a player who has only been @ the tbl for 9 hands go all-in, could/would you fold here? IMO, I would have.

full tilt poker Game #12252524641: Table Glenmount - $0.02/$0.05 - No Limit Hold'em - 12:17:33 ET - 2009/05/16
Seat 1: fenway100722 ($3.65)
Seat 2: ezekiel49 ($4)
Seat 3: Poker_Fanatic99 ($5.02)
Seat 4: Lambo130 ($1)
Seat 5: PinkEyeless ($5.02)
Seat 6: Cepera52 ($9.63)
Seat 7: mannslut ($5.49)
Seat 8: PLZZFOLD ($3.45)
Seat 9: Darkmon ($2.26)
PinkEyeless posts the small blind of $0.02
Cepera52 posts the big blind of $0.05
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Poker_Fanatic99 [Ah Ac]
mannslut folds
PLZZFOLD calls $0.05
Darkmon folds
fenway100722 folds
ezekiel49 folds
Poker_Fanatic99 has 15 seconds left to act
Poker_Fanatic99 raises to $0.25
Lambo130 folds
PinkEyeless has 15 seconds left to act
PinkEyeless folds
Cepera52 raises to $0.75
PLZZFOLD folds
Poker_Fanatic99 raises to $5.02, and is all in...

BB?
 
Last edited:
Steveg1976

Steveg1976

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please convert your hands they are so hard to read this way. And don't post the results or they will sway opinions.
 
Steveg1976

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--------------------
HAND #1
--------------------

Full Tilt, $0.02/$0.05 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

MP2: $3.65 (73 bb)
MP3: $4 (80 bb)
Hero (CO): $5.02 (100.4 bb)
BTN: $1 (20 bb)
SB: $5.02 (100.4 bb)
BB: $9.63 (192.6 bb)
UTG+1: $5.49 (109.8 bb)
UTG+2: $3.45 (69 bb)
MP1: $2.26 (45.2 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with A
heart.gif
A
club.gif

UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls $0.05, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.25, 2 folds, BB raises to $0.75, UTG+2 folds, Hero raises to $5.02 and is all-in, BB calls $4.27

Flop: ($10.11) 3
diamond.gif
8
club.gif
8
spade.gif
(2 players, 1 is all-in)

looks fine I guess, Against an unknow really folding KK is as he could be raising AK.
 
Suited Frenzy

Suited Frenzy

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please convert your hands they are so hard to read this way. And don't post the results or they will sway opinions.

TBH, I would but I don't know how to convert hands. I'll edit my post & put results after. Thanks for the info & thoughts on hand...:D
 
tenbob

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No I dont fold KK preflop in a nl$5 game, nor do i fold them in a nl$200 game against an unknown.

Dont go looking for spots for folds, be looking for spots to get them in.
 
P

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You should never fold kings preflop, never never never never never never never.
 
OzExorcist

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Have I missed the point? We have AA here, not KK.

If the question is should we be four-betting smaller to make sure we don't make KK fold... I think that's beside the point. Pretty much nobody at this level is folding KK preflop.
 
Suited Frenzy

Suited Frenzy

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Have I missed the point? We have AA here, not KK.

If the question is should we be four-betting smaller to make sure we don't make KK fold... I think that's beside the point. Pretty much nobody at this level is folding KK preflop.

Yea, I was the 1 who had pkt aces but I was trying to figure out why they called so quickly instead of thinkin' about it & foldin'.

Regardless of being in a micro stake & playin' against an unknown, it wasn't hard to put me on pkt aces there. I don't raise 5x the BB that often if @ all, plus I DEFINITELY WOULD NOT re-raise a 3-bet w/o holdin' the NUTz. I don't even 3-bet w/o holdin' @ least a large pkt pr. So in sayin' that, it was confusin' to me that's all...
 
OzExorcist

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Regardless of being in a micro stake & playin' against an unknown, it wasn't hard to put me on pkt aces there. I don't raise 5x the BB that often if @ all, plus I DEFINITELY WOULD NOT re-raise a 3-bet w/o holdin' the NUTz. I don't even 3-bet w/o holdin' @ least a large pkt pr. So in sayin' that, it was confusin' to me that's all...

Fair enough. It's not your mindset that matters so much in this situation though - it's your opponents mindset. And there are plenty of players at $5NL (and well above, for that matter) whose thoughts begin and end at "I have KK I'm getting all in before the flop if I can".

Some of them extend that though to "...and if I run into aces, so be it" or "...the other guy could have AK/QQ+ and I'm doing OK against that range". But there are very, very few players at this level that are getting away from KK.

There might be an interesting discussion on whether you should be varying your bet size to extract more value from the rest of the villain's range for the times when he doesn't have KK... though FWIW if you think they're likely to call a shove with JJ+ then just shoving is probably the right play anyway :p
 
Suited Frenzy

Suited Frenzy

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There might be an interesting discussion on whether you should be varying your bet size to extract more value from the rest of the villain's range for the times when he doesn't have KK... though FWIW if you think they're likely to call a shove with JJ+ then just shoving is probably the right play anyway :p

1st off, I really appreciate the comments & info (good or bad/helpful or not). :)

2nd, I would've re-raised him (or any1 for that matter) to around $2 in most cases but that's almost half my stack there LOL so might as well shove. Had I been there w/ a stack around $10 or more, it would've made sense to do so. But in this case, even if he folds, I take down a pot around 1/5 of my stack size.
 
Stu_Ungar

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2 things strike me that no-one seems to have mentioned.

Firstly you shouldn't push, you should re-raise to $2. You have the best hand and should be trying to play for stacks. The smaller bet allows a few other hands to either call or shove. You will make more money in the LR rather than just shoving because you are committed. Whilst you are committed to the pot at this point, your opponent is not. (unless he has KK LOL)

Secondly I don't think criticising people for calling your all-in bet with KK is going to lead you into good thought processes in terms of playing poker. If calling one of your shoves with KK is an -ev play then you are 4betting and shoving way too infrequently. Your range should be tight, but if it seems from the way that you are criticising his call, that AA is the only hand you are capable of shoving preflop.

If you get it into your head now that KK should be folded to aggression then this will hamper you later on as you are playing far too weakly.
 
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