$5 NLHE Full Ring: Flush draw and bottom pair on flop

J

jaded848

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Villain was 26/10 after 30 hands, seemed like an average player, hadn't seen anything really significant to add to my read. I put him on AQ, KQ, or an overpair. QQ or TT were less likely just based on the logistics, so I figured a shove would allow me to isolate the main raiser plus give me a decent shot at the pot with some dead money in it. Thoughts?

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Hold'em Manager Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com
UTG ($5.93)
UTG+1 ($3.28)
MP1 ($1.64)
MP2 ($6.44)
MP3 ($4.11)
CO ($5.46)
Hero (Button) ($4.88)
SB ($5.28)
BB ($3.54)
Preflop: Hero is Button with 3
heart.gif
, 2
heart.gif

1 fold, UTG+1 bets $0.17, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.17, MP3 calls $0.17, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.17, SB calls $0.15, BB calls $0.12
Flop: ($1.02) Q
heart.gif
, 10
heart.gif
, 3
spade.gif
(6 players)
SB checks, BB bets $0.05, UTG+1 raises $0.85, 1 fold, MP3 calls $0.85, Hero raises $4.71 (All-In), 2 folds, UTG+1 calls $2.26 (All-In), 1 fold
Turn: ($8.14) 5
spade.gif
(2 players, 2 all-in)
River: ($8.14) Q
diamond.gif
(2 players, 2 all-in)
Total pot: $8.14
 
bgomez89

bgomez89

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fold preflop and I fold the flop too
 
J

jaded848

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Oh wow, guess I was way more off than I thought ha.

Could either one of you elaborate a bit more? I can understand the preflop part...I guess I was feeling a bit adventurous with the small suited connectors, I'll remember to fold preflop next time. But once the flop hits, what's the best way to think about the hand? I was looking it as I'm about 50/50 with an overpair and I might have some fold equity, plus some dead money in the pot. Basically, what I'm asking is what are the most critical points that make this a call or even a fold on the flop?
 
bgomez89

bgomez89

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i fold flop because you could be up against someone drawing to a higher flush which means there's less hearts out there for you to hit and because your pair pretty much means nothing according to villain's bet. I think you are getting the odds to call but like I mentioned before, someone(MP3) could be drawing to a higher flush and if a heart hits you could be crushed.
 
C

cazique

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You definitely have to fold the flop given the action in front of you, UTG+1 made a huge raise which means he was not going anywhere, and MP3 cold call means he was probably drawing to the nuts, so your semi-bluff shove didn't have fold equity in this case.
 
vanquish

vanquish

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umm wtf? jamming the flop seems perfectly fine
 
Pascal-lf

Pascal-lf

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No problem with jamming flop but ditch pre even with button.
 
J

jaded848

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anddddddddd now I'm more confused haha I've heard fold flop, call flop, and jam flop :(
 
vanquish

vanquish

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jam flop, trust me


fold pre though
 
brank

brank

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anddddddddd now I'm more confused haha I've heard fold flop, call flop, and jam flop :(


Basically just fold pre. That seems to be the consensus. You wont have any hard decisions if you just fold 23s pre everytime and to be honest you will never be making a mistake if you fold this pre 100% of the time.
 
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