$5 NLHE Full Ring: Flopped Middle Set, 3-way Pot on Monotone Board

mrmonkey

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Full Tilt - $0.05 NL RUSH - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $5.85
Hero (UTG): $6.04
UTG+1: $4.06
MP: $5.62
MP+1: $2.26
LP: $3.99
CO: $5.02
BTN: $3.83
SB: $5.77

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has 5♣5♥

Hero raises to $0.15, UTG+1 calls $0.15, fold, MP+1 calls $0.15, fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.70, SB calls $0.68, fold, Hero calls $0.55, fold, fold

I wasn't quite sure about this call -- being UTG I'm usually folding this when 3-bet but since SB called and there were two to act after me I felt I was getting decent odds to see a flop.

Flop: ($2.45, 3 players) 5♠ 8♠ 3♠
SB checks, Hero ?

We're obviously betting here, but how much?
 
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PattyR

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hard as shit to read that wall of shit.

but i bet at least $2
 
mrmonkey

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hard as shit to read that wall of shit.

but i bet at least $2

Sorry, I think there's a bug in the forum software 'cause when you do preview it seems to mess up PT3 converted hands.

edit: reformatted it
 
brank

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100% fold pre flop to the 3 bet.

As played c/r the 3 bettor for all da mannies.
 
mrmonkey

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100% fold pre flop to the 3 bet.

As played c/r the 3 bettor for all da mannies.

Implied odds do not matter? Can we see a flop with deeper stacks? Or if others call do we have too much danger in set over set situations?

I though about c/r on flop, but I was worried 3-bettor maybe has AK and didn't want to give a free draw. Also, if overpair he maybe shoves anyways -- no reads since it's micro Rush, but it's likely he re-raise shoves over a good-sized bet with QQ+.
 
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PattyR

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your OOP and he like 5bet you. really no implied odds there even though SB called
 
brank

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BU only has a $3.83 stack. So deff not enough implied odds.

Even if he had a 100bb stack and made this raise you're not getting good enough implied odds(7:1 in that case) and you're OOP for the hand. There are a lot of diff opinions on what odds you need to set mine and then there is the question on how often you can win a pot without hitting a set. Search the site for some more info on it cause I dont have time right now to write a whole article on it:)
 
mrmonkey

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BU only has a $3.83 stack. So deff not enough implied odds.

Even if he had a 100bb stack and made this raise you're not getting good enough implied odds(7:1 in that case) and you're OOP for the hand. There are a lot of diff opinions on what odds you need to set mine and then there is the question on how often you can win a pot without hitting a set. Search the site for some more info on it cause I dont have time right now to write a whole article on it:)

Yeah, this hand got me thinking about my set mining practices and whether I should be leading UTG with my small pairs or not, particularly when playing Rush. I plan on reading a bit more on these situations, if you know of any good resources off the top of your head I'd love to see them.

In reviewing the hand, I also realized that since 3-bettor was not even 100bb full it's probably not worth making the call -- but I typically 4-table Rush and didn't notice it at first glance. It will have to be something I take further into consideration in the future.

I know against one 100bb villain it's not worth it to call, but since the SB was 100bb+ and also called I thought with implied odds against two or more callers it might make it closer to being worth it. Adding to that fact there were two callers behind me, if one or both of them get in on the pot then my pot odds become something like 5.5/6:1, and implied odds shoot up to greater than 8:1 if I think one or more stacks go in with overpairs, TPTK, or two pair. But I do worry about bigger sets pwning low sets when in these multiway limp-called pots.
 
mrmonkey

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Any other opinions on bet sizing on flop?

3 Scenarios:

1. 2/3 pot size bet: to induce 3-bettor to re-raise allin, call all-in. If no raise comes, what do on turn if spade hits?

2. pot size bet or slight overbet: commit stack and reduce drawing odds. hopefully doesn't scare off overpair with no spade draw. Can't fold turn even if spade hits, right?

3. open shove: eliminate flush-draw odds. might scare off overpairs with no spade draw.
 
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soccerrunner8098

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I'd probably bet at least 3/4 pot in this situation, maybe pot
 
pokerman27

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I fold all pairs 22-66 UTG but maybe I'm too tight...
 
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