$5 NLHE Full Ring: Facing large bet OTT with a wet board

mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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Hero is SB holding :kd4: :10s4: with $7.49 in stack

Villian is BB with $5.02 in his stack.

Villain Appears to be LAG Fish.. (it is bovada afterall)
I dont have much to go on here except i did see him 4bet strong preflop with AQoffsuit in an earlier hand


Preflop:
Hero(SB) posts SB: $0.02
Villain(BB) posts BB: $0.05
Fold, Fold, Fold
MP calls
MP+1 calls
Fold
Hero(SB) raises to: $0.20
Villain(BB) raises to: $0.35
Fold, Fold

Flop: ($0.80)
:10d4: :6d4: :5c4:

Hero bets: $0.50
Villain calls

Turn: ($1.80)
:8s4:

Hero checks
Villain bets: $1.94
Hero... ???


What should Hero do following this bet on the turn?
 
TimovieMan

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Why did you donk the flop? He has the initiative, and if he's the LAG fish you say he is, he'll bet out.


Frankly, if I hit TPGK vs a LAG, I prefer to just c/c 3 streets and let him barrel. Possibly bet the river 30-40% pot if no overcards have come by then (to set the price for the river).


Btw, he overbet the pot which is basically saying "FOLD!". So you definitely shouldn't fold. ;)
 
DrazaFFT

DrazaFFT

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you dont need 4bb to open bvb, 3bb is enough. His 3bet is stupidly small i would bet tempted to 4bet bluff but fold to a shove or to a 5bet that is not ridiculously small, not really a fan of c3b OOP. If you plan to donk flop you need to barrel turn again, would also be tempted to call the raise cuz in a 3bet pot against a fish TP is often enough but might also fold. Here you easily facing autobet cuz your line screams weak, i would fold but note that he autobet pot and next time setup a x/r trap with good hand...
 
mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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Why did you donk the flop? He has the initiative, and if he's the LAG fish you say he is, he'll bet out.
Because the only better hand was two pair, a set or large pocket pair. Given his weak 3bet, I doubt he had any pocket pair or set. So I bet for value against hands like second or third pair. And I wanted to be absolutely sure that any flush draw or straight draw didn't get a free card.


Frankly, if I hit TPGK vs a LAG, I prefer to just c/c 3 streets and let him barrel. Possibly bet the river 30-40% pot if no overcards have come by then (to set the price for the river).
How does this work? I can feel myself not wanting to like this for some reason but i don't know why i don't want to like this... I think maybe I'm afraid of that overcard or that 7 coming in on the river giving the straight to any 9 or the 9 coming in giving the straight to any 7...

Btw, he overbet the pot which is basically saying "FOLD!". So you definitely shouldn't fold. ;)
Good read. It seems like he is trying to represent the straight.
 
mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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I think my donk bet was okay in this spot, but only if I would have continued on the turn like draza said...
I'm pretty sure as soon as I did it, I had something in the back of my mind remember all the times I've seen "don't donk!" Written all over the internet and reacted to the slight cringe by checking the turn
 
DrazaFFT

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Just for the record, i would probably donk bet here with a set
 
DrazaFFT

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Most likely not, not with this TP and this board.
To get deeper into the subject of why i would and why i wouldn't donk bet this or that first i need to ask you what was the reason for your bet on flop?
we need to know why we bet, do we bet for value or we bet as bluff, for example if i opened 66 bvb and face this excuse for a 3bet i would call with nice odds to setmine, i would probably 4bet shove for value TT+ maybe even 88+ but here i hypothetically called and hit set, now i want the pot to get bigger and eventually to get all the money in and i cant do it if i check and let him check back cuz he didnt flopped to much but draws and medium hands which would likely check back flop but would call cuz pot odds or auto raise cuz thats what you should do against fish who donks (we appears as a fish here, in his eyes) and here we get value and get the money in, if he called the pot is bigger and we can put another barrel, eventually snap shove to appear weaker and here money are in, value is accomplished. With TPGK on this board i would probably went into x/c mode to keep his range wide and depends of the sizing and canrd to come i would do that on turn or river or not...
 
mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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That makes sense.

I'm thinking this guy is calling here with any pair, any draw or even any over card, and he's raising with any set or overpair.


As played, I decided that his overbet was a sign that he could think at least well enough to recognize the possible straight on the board and represent it. So I decided to bluff and represent the straight that he was representing. I shoved, making it look like a trap.
 
TimovieMan

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Because the only better hand was two pair, a set or large pocket pair. Given his weak 3bet, I doubt he had any pocket pair or set. So I bet for value against hands like second or third pair. And I wanted to be absolutely sure that any flush draw or straight draw didn't get a free card.
LAGs don't take free cards with a draw. They semi-bluff bet. ;)
You can check-raise if that makes you feel better, but that usually folds out their worse hands and let's them continue with their better hands.

How does this work? I can feel myself not wanting to like this for some reason but i don't know why i don't want to like this... I think maybe I'm afraid of that overcard or that 7 coming in on the river giving the straight to any 9 or the 9 coming in giving the straight to any 7...
I never said it wasn't high variance. Playing with LAGs is by definition high variance.
But calling them down with good hands keeps all their bluffs in and instead of value-betting yourself, you just let them value-bet your hand for you.

As played, I decided that his overbet was a sign that he could think at least well enough to recognize the possible straight on the board and represent it. So I decided to bluff and represent the straight that he was representing. I shoved, making it look like a trap.
Turning a made hand into a bluff. Not often a good idea. Let's hope he called and had QT/JT or something, or that he folded.
 
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mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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LAGs don't take free cards with a draw. They semi-bluff bet. ;)
You can check-raise if that makes you feel better, but that usually folds out their worse hands and let's them continue with their better hands.

okay, that makes sense

I never said it wasn't high variance. Playing with LAGs is by definition high variance.
But calling them down with good hands keeps all their bluffs in and instead of value-betting yourself, you just let them value-bet your hand for you.
okay, i guess thats the beginner in me. im afraid of being sucked out on and am starting to prefer folds to thin value. although thats probably a leak that i need to work on.

Turning a made hand into a bluff. Not often a good idea. Let's hope he called and had QT/JT or something, or that he folded.

He folded
 
mbrenneman0

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I think with the bet he made on the turn he either had a very strong hand or he had nothing. I felt like nothing was more likely here
 
F

Foldemz

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You're a serial donk-better.
I'm not saying that there isn't a time to lead out when someone else was the aggressor, but I've just noticed a trend with your posts and it's a flaw in your game (at least in my opinion).

1. https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-game-hand-analysis-50/2-nlhe-full-ring-weird-spot-288993/
Here you donk lead with middle pair

2. https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-game-hand-analysis-50/2-nlhe-full-ring-villain-a-288893/
Here you donk lead with over pair

3. https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-game-hand-analysis-50/10-nlhe-full-ring-how-line-289301/
This hand isn't yours but you defend donk leading with bottom set

4. https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-game-hand-analysis-50/5-nlhe-full-ring-facing-large-289435/
This current one where you get 3bet pre and donklead top pair.

Like I said there is a time for it, but I think you're doing it way too often. You haven't posted many hands and a large portion of them are donking.
 
mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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You're a serial donk-better.
I'm not saying that there isn't a time to lead out when someone else was the aggressor, but I've just noticed a trend with your posts and it's a flaw in your game (at least in my opinion).

1. https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-game-hand-analysis-50/2-nlhe-full-ring-weird-spot-288993/
Here you donk lead with middle pair

2. https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-game-hand-analysis-50/2-nlhe-full-ring-villain-a-288893/
Here you donk lead with over pair

3. https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-game-hand-analysis-50/10-nlhe-full-ring-how-line-289301/
This hand isn't yours but you defend donk leading with bottom set

4. https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-game-hand-analysis-50/5-nlhe-full-ring-facing-large-289435/
This current one where you get 3bet pre and donklead top pair.

Like I said there is a time for it, but I think you're doing it way too often. You haven't posted many hands and a large portion of them are donking.

over the past few days ive started becoming much more aware of it, and am doing it less. ill keep working on getting out of the habbit.
 
F

Foldemz

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over the past few days ive started becoming much more aware of it, and am doing it less. ill keep working on getting out of the habbit.

Yup, and that's why we're all here. We talk through hands so we all get better and sharpen our skills.
It's not just for the people who post hands, when we comment on them we are helping our own game by walking through what the best decision is.
 
mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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Yup, and that's why we're all here. We talk through hands so we all get better and sharpen our skills.
It's not just for the people who post hands, when we comment on them we are helping our own game by walking through what the best decision is.

yeah, i honestly think ive learned more from being on these boards for a week and through the reading material suggested on these boards than i have for the rest of my casual poker playing life. reminds me of the old days of the internet (except with more content out there)
 
Omahahahaha

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just complete pre. as played you should call the raise i guess.


flop betting seems reasonable, although I would probably c/r. on the turn i would gii i guess.
 
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