$5 NLHE Full Ring: Could I Have Gotten More?

SeaRun

SeaRun

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A huge complaint of my own play is I always 2nd guess my bet sizing. Sometimes with a monster I can't get any callers and other times I get callers but can't help but feel there was more out there. Somewhere in between is the right place to be I guess.

In this case, especially on the river, I can't help but think there was more to be had. Thoughts?

pokerstars - $0.05 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

Hero (MP): 112.2 BB
MP+1: 100 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 4)
CO: 122.2 BB (VPIP: 38.89, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 37)
BTN: 119.2 BB (VPIP: 36.36, PFR: 18.18, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
SB: 75.2 BB (VPIP: 7.50, PFR: 5.00, 3Bet Preflop: 5.56, Hands: 40)
BB: 100 BB (VPIP: 12.50, PFR: 9.38, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 32)
UTG: 100 BB (VPIP: 5.88, PFR: 5.88, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 17)
UTG+1: 104.2 BB (VPIP: 13.64, PFR: 9.09, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 22)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Js Jh
fold, fold, Hero raises to 3.4 BB, fold, CO calls 3.4 BB, BTN calls 3.4 BB, fold, fold

Flop : (11.6 BB, 3 players) 5s Jc 7c
Hero bets 5.6 BB, CO calls 5.6 BB, fold

Turn : (22.8 BB, 2 players) 7d
Hero bets 10.8 BB, CO calls 10.8 BB

River : (44.4 BB, 2 players) Kh
Hero bets 10 BB, CO calls 10 BB

Hero shows Js Jh (Full House, Jacks full of Sevens)
(Pre 81%, Flop 95%, Turn 100%)

CO mucks 8h 8d (Two Pair, Eights and Sevens)
(Pre 19%, Flop 5%, Turn 0%)

Hero wins 61.8 BB
 
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roddy1977

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Maybe you could've got more on the river, it depends how much of a fish the villain is! If he's putting you on overcards the King on the river connects with much of your range, so would he have called a bigger bet? Or maybe he's not really thinking much about what you have at all, and would call a bigger bet simply because he's a fish with a pocket pair. In which case he would presumably call a 1/2 to 2/3 pot value bet. Out of interest, why didn't you bet more on the river? Were you hoping to deceive him into raising with a weak looking bet, or simply thinking a larger bet wouldn't get called? :)
 
SeaRun

SeaRun

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SNIP<<<< Out of interest, why didn't you bet more on the river? Were you hoping to deceive him into raising with a weak looking bet, or simply thinking a larger bet wouldn't get called? :)

Thanks for the post.

A little of both in reality, more of the 2nd. I don't remember exactly now but I believe this player would call bets to the Turn and then fold on the river, but that may have been another player.

Either way, I did good on the hand but I'm always looking for something more if it might be there.
 
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thatgreekdude

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You're sizing is horrible on every street, it's 5NL, Max value is your win rate. Betting 50% of pot on every street and then 25% on river?? You're looking to get called by Jx Kx, charge him for it, granted if you deemed him weak your bet would be fine which I don't see how you could of done considering he's called two streets prior you just have to go max value on the river, especially against a loose opponent (38/25) typically not going to be the most well informed players when it comes to reading there hand strength.
 
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SenorMath

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I think your sizing is not horrible, it is small everytime but for this particular hand you get good value. 88 wouldn't have called way bigger bets I suppose. The more important question is what you would have gotten from his range. Loose player who calls a middle position open for 3,4 BB. On the flop you are in pretty good shape against smaller pairs, QJ, KJ, AJ, JT,J9s. He could also have some drawing hands for the flush and the gut shot. Well I think definitely on the flop you could bet like 2/3. After the board pairs it gets harder for him to call his draw, but any jack won't fold yet. So to get more value you can bet 7/12 - 8-12 pot. On the river you lost much value I think. You have two option, go really big, so it looks like missed draw or bluff on the king. Or go like <1/3 pot. So he will still call with his Jacks. I think if you bet big enough it will look pretty suspicious which will lead to more calls.
 
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thatgreekdude

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Not sure I understand that statement. Would you mind explaining, please?

I'm trying to say that at 5NL your main edge is that you're going to be a better value better than every other player. Nothing else matters at these stakes. Value, Value, Value. That should be all that goes through your head.
 
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thatgreekdude

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I think your sizing is not horrible, it is small everytime but for this particular hand you get good value.

It is. He flopped a set, Turned a boat. He should be betting 70-80% of pot on each street. Especially against bad players as they will call absurdly wide (Flush draws, any pair, overcards) 7x could easily be in his range judging by his stats. After he calls the turn there is no reason not to go HUGE in correlation to the pot. You thin value betting the river makes no sense, he's just called you down two streets and then you think it's a good idea to 25% it as if you know he has nothing.
 
Figaroo2

Figaroo2

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Bet bigger on every street. If you are struggling to know what to bet then turn the hand around and think about how much you would call on the flop with say the nut flush draw? Probably full pot would you not? When you have a big hand we want to build a big pot. This is achieved by betting big on the flop and turn to set up river shoves that aren't massive overbets.
 
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