$5 NLHE Full Ring: Commit 100BB with TPTK against uknown ?

L

limakpl

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pokerstars Hand #178271706753: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05 USD) - 2017/11/15 17:07:01 WET [2017/11/15 12:07:01 ET]
Table 'Rimito II' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Eesti_Rocky ($5.11 in chips)
Seat 3: vadim_audi ($6.28 in chips)
Seat 4: limakpl ($12.65 in chips)
Seat 6: zazaz1977 ($8.24 in chips)
Seat 8: ANDREY9377 ($5 in chips)
Seat 9: tuco180 ($5.13 in chips)
tuco180: posts small blind $0.02
Eesti_Rocky: posts big blind $0.05
J.Kloppo 09: sits out
doberman6665: sits out
Eesti_Rocky: posts the ante $0.01
vadim_audi: posts the ante $0.01
limakpl: posts the ante $0.01
zazaz1977: posts the ante $0.01
ANDREY9377: posts the ante $0.01
tuco180: posts the ante $0.01
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to limakpl [Jh As]
vadim_audi: folds
limakpl: raises $0.10 to $0.15
zazaz1977: folds
ANDREY9377: folds
tuco180: folds
Eesti_Rocky: calls $0.10
*** FLOP *** [4c 9s Js]
Eesti_Rocky: checks
limakpl: bets $0.18 (1/2 pot)
Eesti_Rocky: calls $0.18
*** TURN *** [4c 9s Js] 2d
Eesti_Rocky: checks
limakpl: bets $0.36 (1/2 pot)
Eesti_Rocky: calls $0.36
*** RIVER *** [4c 9s Js 2d] 7d
Eesti_Rocky: checks
limakpl: bets $1.40 (pot)
Eesti_Rocky: raises $3.01 to $4.41 and is all-in
HERO ????????????
I am getting 2.42-1 pot odds after his raise. I bet 1/2 pot on flop and turn to get called by worst hands. Since I didn't show much strength with 1/2 pot bets I assumed that if villian improved on the river he would bet himself rather than checkraise. Do you call the raise in this spot against unknown? I was thinking that maybe check-raise bluff busted flush draw ? Any insights on how I played ?
 
F

FlyingBuddha

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Hello limakpl!
What you did is could "bet on air"!
Most likely hi have T8s, Hi could have bluff like flush dro and QT.
Your bet on the river will call only stronger hand then yours , thats why its calls "bet on air" no value in your betting!
And check raise from unknowing is just giving you more problems lol
Dont play with unknown at least if you dont have nuts lol

GL

Sincerely F.B.
 
Figaroo2

Figaroo2

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I fold
Its a 2 streets of value hand and on that board id be happy to double barrel to charge the many draws and then check behind if he chooses not to bet.. Once he checks the river he either has a busted draw and gave up or he has a weak Jx or a big hand like a set or a straight and is going for the check raise on the end.
Normally if they are going to bluff busted draws they will lead into you on the end before you put any more chips in and get that much more committed.
Very few players would check raise bluff because there are too many players who cant lay down tptk or an overpair at this level.
It's probably a set or T8.
Think about what are you trying to get such big value from on the end? A weak Jx won't likely call such a big bet. Scale it down or don't bet at all you will only get called or raised by better on that sizing.
 
J

JKo2theQQ

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I would have to agree with the other posts that we are very likely beat and need to find a fold on the river. Overall, I thought the line you took was fine until the river. I think checking back on the river is the better play in this spot because there just isn't much value in betting the river here with TPTK. There are VERY few hands that we can beat that would call a bet on the river. KJ, QJ, JT, and maybe TT are really the only ones. If the villain missed his draw or holds a weak made hand, he is unlikely to call a third value bet from us. On the flip side, betting the river will open us up to check/raises (as happened here) from strong made hands and bluffs that force us to make tough decisions. The villains actions on the flop and turn seemed to fit a drawing hand but the check/raise on the river screams big hand. This reeks of a straight with T8 or a set (or an unlikely 2 pair). With such a wet board I would have expected a set to make a move a little bit earlier to protect against all the draws, but I've seen crazier things. I think the villain usually shows up here with T8. Unfortunately, I think we are beat almost every time in this spot so we really need to find a fold. Sucks the villain got there but I think we save money in the long run by checking behind on the river.

Good Luck.
 
L

limakpl

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Yeah, I have to agree with your posts 100%. check back river. I decided to make a hero call, villain shows two pair 97. I guess I bet pot on the river to make it look like I am trying to buy the pot and so could get called by top pairs with weaker kickers, anyway I now understand that unless I have info that villian can call 3 streets with something like TP good kicker I can't make this play often. THANKS guys
 
TheBigFinn

TheBigFinn

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TPTK is a medium hand and not worth 3 bets, even 1/2 pot bets. BUT, before you bet on the river you have to have decided what you will do if Villain bets. Since Villain is an unknown there is no reason to bet. Check it down and see.
 
J

JKo2theQQ

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WOW....I'm stunned he was holding 97!!....Although I said " T8 or a set (or an unlikely 2 pair)". I actually meant J9 was the ONLY 2 pair he might have. showing up with 97 here is ridiculous. You showed decent strength the whole way by raising preflop and then betting the flop and the turn. With 97 the villain never had a straight draw, a flush draw, or any other decent chance of improving past a pair of 9's but called every bet. Apparently he believed 99 was the best hand the entire way (somehow?!?). That makes me believe he isn't a very good thinking player (unless he just thinks you are the worst player on earth).
I definitely agree with you about over betting the river (especially at 2, 5, and 10NL) hoping to entice a hero call from a medium-weak hand like top pair with a good/decent kicker. The brick on the river certainly creates a spot where you might try to buy it with a busted draw. Although, in this specific spot the villain really only has 3 or 4 medium-weak hands in his range so he will rarely be able to consider a hero call. Probably not often enough to risk taking the shot.......Side note, Villain holding 97 here makes him look like a loose calling station. I can't imagine ever finding a better target for inducing a hero call hahahaha.....
 
A

Afghani84

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Since you apparently don't have any reads yet, I would slow down on the turn. You block the nutflush, so you do not have to protect against as many hands. I check/call turn and probably also river. If villain checks the turn behind, I have a valuebet on the river.
As played easy fold with top pair.
 
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