$5 NLHE Full Ring: BB, is it OK to call with K9 over 3 limpers?

F4STFORW4RD

F4STFORW4RD

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Only have 10 hands against the UTG+1 player, but stats are 20/0, no notes.
CO: 18/5 over 60 hands, no notes.
SB: 16/2 over 119 hands, no notes.

My stats are 13/11.

Poker Stars - $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em (8 players)
Poker Stars Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com


SB: $1.58
BB Hero: $2.41
UTG: $6.31
UTG+1: $0.78
MP: $2.41
MP+1: $1.70
CO: $2.73
BTN: $1.43
bowgan - Sitting Out


Pre-flop: ($0.03) Hero is BB and dealt :kc4: :9h4:
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.02, 2 folds, CO calls $0.02, BTN folds, SB calls $0.01
 
brank

brank

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I dont get it. You're the BB right?

Are you asking if you should raise these limpers or just check it and see a flop?

I dont really like to iso limpers OOP with a hand like K9o if I dont know how they play post flop. If you know they will limp fold pre or c/f any flop they miss then Im OK with raising here.
 
F4STFORW4RD

F4STFORW4RD

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I dont get it. You're the BB right?

Are you asking if you should raise these limpers or just check it and see a flop?
What else could I be asking? I'm not going to fold.

I dont really like to iso limpers OOP with a hand like K9o if I dont know how they play post flop. If you know they will limp fold pre or c/f any flop they miss then Im OK with raising here.
I've given you their stats and told you that I don't have notes on any of them. I thought that I had provided quite a lot of information already, in all fairness.
 
bgomez89

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What else could I be asking? I'm not going to fold.

Your phrasing was confusing. You're asking if it's ok to flat but you actually can't flat in this situation since no one raised. You can only flat when there is a raise(flat is short for 'flat call')
 
F4STFORW4RD

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Your phrasing was confusing. You're asking if it's ok to flat but you actually can't flat in this situation since no one raised. You can only flat when there is a raise(flat is short for 'flat call')
OK thanks, I'll ask a mod to change it.
 
F4STFORW4RD

F4STFORW4RD

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I checked. Presumably it won't affect my VPIP anyway, as I'm not putting the BB in voluntarily.
 
acky100

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wont affect vpip, check and give up almost always no point raising and getting fancy K9 is trash here
 
F4STFORW4RD

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Poker Stars - $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em (8 players) Poker Stars Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com


SB: $1.58
BB Hero: $2.41
UTG: $6.31
UTG+1: $0.78
MP: $2.41
MP+1: $1.70
CO: $2.73
BTN: $1.43
bowgan - Sitting Out


Pre-flop: ($0.03) Hero is BB and dealt :kc4: :9h4:
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.02, 2 folds, CO calls $0.02, BTN folds, SB calls $0.01, Hero checks


Flop: ($0.08) :9d4: :5c4: :kh4: (4 players)
 
jbbb

jbbb

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Everyone's pretty tight and you've got 2nd nuts here IMO so i'd bet out and hopefully get called by KJo, KT maybe JT kind of hands.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Against the types of players who limped here I'd probably raise preflop. I think it's fine to just checkbehind and then give-up on most flops but I think if we raise preflop (I'd make it ~.15) we're most likely to end up HU or 3-way with some fairly well defined ranges (other than UTG+1 they have small pairs if they limp/call). We cbet all flops that are good for our range (all flops with a Jack or better) and take down a medium sized pot often enough to make it profitable.

As played, I'd lead for pot. Other than UTG+1 the flop doesn't really hit their ranges but you flopped well so you need to try to build whatever pot you can now.
 
F4STFORW4RD

F4STFORW4RD

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Everyone's pretty tight and you've got 2nd nuts here IMO so i'd bet out and hopefully get called by KJo, KT maybe JT kind of hands.
Nuts would presumably be if one of them had 55?

Against the types of players who limped here I'd probably raise preflop. I think it's fine to just checkbehind and then give-up on most flops but I think if we raise preflop (I'd make it ~.15) we're most likely to end up HU or 3-way with some fairly well defined ranges (other than UTG+1 they have small pairs if they limp/call). We cbet all flops that are good for our range (all flops with a Jack or better) and take down a medium sized pot often enough to make it profitable.

As played, I'd lead for pot. Other than UTG+1 the flop doesn't really hit their ranges but you flopped well so you need to try to build whatever pot you can now.
OK thanks.


Poker Stars - $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em (8 players)
Poker Stars Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com
SB: $1.58
BB Hero: $2.41
UTG: $6.31
UTG+1: $0.78
MP: $2.41
MP+1: $1.70
CO: $2.73
BTN: $1.43
bowgan - Sitting Out


Pre-flop: ($0.03) Hero is BB and dealt :kc4: :9h4:
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.02, 2 folds, CO calls $0.02, BTN folds, SB calls $0.01, Hero checks


Flop: ($0.08) :9d4: :5c4: :kh4: (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $0.02, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.10, UTG+1 calls $0.08


Turn: ($0.28) :9d4: :5c4: :kh4: :10d4: (2 players)
 
F4STFORW4RD

F4STFORW4RD

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Poker Stars - $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em (8 players)
Poker Stars Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com


SB: $1.58
BB Hero: $2.41
UTG: $6.31
UTG+1: $0.78
MP: $2.41
MP+1: $1.70
CO: $2.73
BTN: $1.43
bowgan - Sitting Out


Pre-flop: ($0.03) Hero is BB and dealt :kc4: :9h4:
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.02, 2 folds, CO calls $0.02, BTN folds, SB calls $0.01, Hero checks


Flop: ($0.08) :9d4: :5c4: :kh4: (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $0.02, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.10, UTG+1 calls $0.08


Turn: ($0.28) :9d4: :5c4: :kh4: :10d4: (2 players)
Hero bets $0.27, UTG+1 calls $0.27


River: ($0.82) :9d4: :5c4: :kh4: :10d4: :ks4: (2 players)
Hero bets $0.78, UTG+1 calls $0.39 (All-in), Hero returned $0.39


Final Pot: $1.60


Showdown:
Hero shows :kc4: :9h4: (a full house, kings full of nines)

UTG+1 shows :jc4: :9c4: (two pair, kings and nines)

Outcome: Hero wins $1.53
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Looks fine other than I like leading the flop better than ch/raising.
 
Last edited:
B

BlueNowhere

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I've got a read on UTG+1, he has 39BB so we can probably assume he's going to be fishy. I'm with WVH regarding pre if you're not playing too many tables go ahead and raise. If you're not multi-tabling you should really have some notes on somebody after 119 hands.
 
B

baudib1

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I would lead 100%, limped pots with tight-passives are unlikely to generate bluffs. Think of how many multi-way limped pots go check-check-check.
 
F4STFORW4RD

F4STFORW4RD

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If you're not multi-tabling you should really have some notes on somebody after 119 hands.
I do generally make lots of notes, but recently I have been playing a lot more tables and it has slipped a little. Also I find mind myself making a lot fewer notes on players that I have classified as "badreg", "TAG/LAG" or "nit" than I do on those that I have labelled as "exploitable". I tend to note their AIPF hole cards, and often not much else.
 
Cafeman

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I would lead 100%, limped pots with tight-passives are unlikely to generate bluffs.
IMO it's not the bluffs you want to c/r on the flop, it's the value hands that you beat. So, going for a c/r isn't so bad, especially with 3 left to act behind.

Admittedly, I normally lead in spots like this though, because we've got all the cards, so it's harder for anyone else to have a piece of this.

Hope you don't mind me adding (subtracting) to your thread F4STFORWARD, but here's a hand from yesterday. It was the second orbit on this table and it made me think of you. No reads, apart from they are both playing with short stacks and they both limped/posted out of turn checked (nuff said). Because I'm a lot like you (awesome) I flop two pair.

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed)

UTG ($20)
MP ($29.58)
CO ($57.74)
Button ($79.01)
SB ($51.55)
Hero (BB) ($53.84)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K
club.gif
, 9
club.gif

UTG (poster) checks, MP calls $0.50, 3 folds, Hero checks

Flop: ($1.75) K
diamond.gif
, Q
club.gif
, 9
heart.gif
(3 players)
Hero bets $1.25, UTG calls $1.25, MP calls $1.25

Turn: ($5.50) 5
diamond.gif
(3 players)
Hero bets $4.50, UTG calls $4.50, MP calls $4.50

River: ($19) 6
diamond.gif
(3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $6, MP calls $6, Hero raises $41.76, UTG calls $7.75 (All-In), MP calls $17.33 (All-In)

Total pot: $79.41

Results:
Hero had K
club.gif
, 9
club.gif
(two pair, Kings and nines).
UTG didn't show Q
diamond.gif
, 5
heart.gif

MP didn't show 6
heart.gif
, K
heart.gif


I figured they must be calling with something, so I went for the c/r on the river to get it all. Fortunately they had such a big piece (essentially coolered) they willingly obliged. With the BD flush making it, I didn't want to lead overbet river.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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IMO it's not the bluffs you want to c/r on the flop, it's the value hands that you beat. So, going for a c/r isn't so bad, especially with 3 left to act behind.

Admittedly, I normally lead in spots like this though, because we've got all the cards, so it's harder for anyone else to have a piece of this.

Hope you don't mind me adding (subtracting) to your thread F4STFORWARD, but here's a hand from yesterday. It was the second orbit on this table and it made me think of you. No reads, apart from they are both playing with short stacks and they both limped/posted out of turn checked (nuff said). Because I'm a lot like you (awesome) I flop two pair.

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed)

UTG ($20)
MP ($29.58)
CO ($57.74)
Button ($79.01)
SB ($51.55)
Hero (BB) ($53.84)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K
club.gif
, 9
club.gif

UTG (poster) checks, MP calls $0.50, 3 folds, Hero checks

Flop: ($1.75) K
diamond.gif
, Q
club.gif
, 9
heart.gif
(3 players)
Hero bets $1.25, UTG calls $1.25, MP calls $1.25

Turn: ($5.50) 5
diamond.gif
(3 players)
Hero bets $4.50, UTG calls $4.50, MP calls $4.50

River: ($19) 6
diamond.gif
(3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $6, MP calls $6, Hero raises $41.76, UTG calls $7.75 (All-In), MP calls $17.33 (All-In)

Total pot: $79.41

Results:
Hero had K
club.gif
, 9
club.gif
(two pair, Kings and nines).
UTG didn't show Q
diamond.gif
, 5
heart.gif

MP didn't show 6
heart.gif
, K
heart.gif


I figured they must be calling with something, so I went for the c/r on the river to get it all. Fortunately they had such a big piece (essentially coolered) they willingly obliged. With the BD flush making it, I didn't want to lead overbet river.
I don't get the river play?? Neither has much more than a PSB left so just shove. Going for a check/raise there is horrible. Don't let the results obscure that.
 
Cafeman

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I don't get the river play?? Neither has much more than a PSB left so just shove.
Nope, MP had more than pot left. Again, I would normally bet bet bet (you know, standard). The reason I went for a c/r is because I figured that was the best way of getting all their money. One of them might bet after I check river, but I most likely get a fold from an overbet after the 'scary flush' makes it. I dunno, maybe I'm wrong here. I could be! :)

Don't let the results obscure that.
Bad play is bad play, and if my line is bad then it's bad - I get that.
 
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