$5 NLHE Full Ring: 99 on button getting 4-bet

full tilt poker $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players - View hand 1018848
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UTG+1: $5.00
MP1: $4.36
MP2: $5.04
CO: $4.00
Hero (BTN): $5.57
SB: $4.67
BB: $10.63
UTG: $1.95

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is BTN with 9 :spade: 9 :heart:
4 folds, CO raises to $0.20, Hero raises to $0.40, 2 folds, CO raises to $1, Hero?

Should I be folding here? No stats on the villain (hasn't played many hands)

Why are you min 3betting? Why are you 3betting 99 at all especially when you have no stats on the villain?

Fold!

People are not generally aggressive enough to reraise with worse or to fold to a shove here.

Even KTo is a coinflip against 99.

Why raise 99 against the CO? 99 plays quite well postflop and does badly against a 4bet so why 3bet?

Now a hand like 33.. that plays poorly postflop and is an easy fold against a 4bet, why not 3bet that?

BTW dont 3bet 33 at 5NL.. people make the mistake of calling too much rather than folding too much to 3bets. But the point was you took a hand that plays OK postflop and lowered its value by 3betting. Wheras a hand like 33 its value is increased by 3betting provided villian folds alot to 3bets

Okay. Thank you guys. So I should be looking to see a flop with any PP lower than say J's?

HomeBrewer said:

Okay. Thank you guys. So I should be looking to see a flop with any PP lower than say J's?

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Are you comfortable getting JJ in preflop against this villain in this situation?

HomeBrewer said:

Okay. Thank you guys. So I should be looking to see a flop with any PP lower than say J's?

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Yes and No

Yes if you think you can make him fold .. so say you call with 55 YOU ARE NOT SETMINING his CO range is far too weak to call, hit sets and then get stacks in. He wont stack off often enough to justify the call. So you need to look for some spots where you can make him fold. Now the thing to remember is his CO range should be wide so really we only have to get him to fold his missed hands on the flop.

No if you dont feel confident in making a few plays.

Calling a CO raise with a small PP is not the same as calling an UTG raise with a small PP. When UTG opens we dont feel that we can make him fold the majority of his range, but we do feel his range is tight enough that he will often stack off when we hit a set (HERE WE ARE SETMINING).

setmining =/= calling with a PP and hoping to hit a set.
Setmining = calling with a PP and hoping to hit a set against a player whose range is so tight we expect him to stack off the majority of the time we hit our set.

WVHillbilly said:

Are you comfortable getting JJ in preflop against this villain in this situation?

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hehe.. did I finally convince you that JJ is not a good hand to 4bet with!

Okay, I see where you are going with that. I guess I really didn't have enough info on this guy to make a good guess as to his range.

Thanks Stu. As I read this stuff from you guys it makes so much more sense. If I could only pick your guys brain for more goodies

Stu_Ungar said:

Yes and No

Yes if you think you can make him fold .. so say you call with 55 YOU ARE NOT SETMINING his CO range is far too weak to call, hit sets and then get stacks in. He wont stack off often enough to justify the call. So you need to look for some spots where you can make him fold. Now the thing to remember is his CO range should be wide so really we only have to get him to fold his missed hands on the flop.

No if you dont feel confident in making a few plays.

Calling a CO raise with a small PP is not the same as calling an UTG raise with a small PP. When UTG opens we dont feel that we can make him fold the majority of his range, but we do feel his range is tight enough that he will often stack off when we hit a set (HERE WE ARE SETMINING).

setmining =/= calling with a PP and hoping to hit a set.
Setmining = calling with a PP and hoping to hit a set against a player whose range is so tight we expect him to stack off the majority of the time we hit our set.

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Stu: Once again thank you for this.

I think BelgoSuisse said something very similiarly:

BelgoSuisse said:

About the red line and the vpip/pfr spread.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with calling someone's open raise provided

1. you have position
2. you are in either one of these situations:

2.A. villain has a wide range and you think you can make him fold a lot postflop. This is particularly effective when calling with suited ace-x , suited connectors, basically any hand that can flop enough equity for you to semi bluff many boards with enough equity to make it profitable.

2.B. villain has a tight range and you think you can stack him a lot when you flop a monster. This is particularly effective when calling with pocket pairs in order to flop sets

When you get confused about 2A and 2B, i.e. you try too hard to make people with tight ranges fold, or you play fit or fold against people with a wide range, you start burning money.

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https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-games-11/question-pt3-graphs-185867/#post1601515


More Pure Gold. Honestly, I love Cardschat! Some of the advice is worth so much to a novice player if he(she) would actually listen.

I have struggled with the same issue with how to play TT 99 88 when in postion vs a raise by a villain with a wide range. I stopped 3betting here a week or two ago as I was getting stacked so I started calling but then was stuck playing fit or flop or worse calling a flop bet and folding on the turn.

I think the Cliff note here is; If you have a decent (read: tight) image with medium pp's and you have position vs loose raiser you can flat his pf raise and then test him by re-raising his flop bet or betting if he checks??

fx20736 said:

I think the Cliff note here is; If you have a decent (read: tight) image with medium pp's and you have position vs loose raiser you can flat his pf raise and then test him by re-raising his flop bet or betting if he checks??

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This all depends on villain's tendencies. Raising accomplishes very little though, so just keep calling his cbets when you think you're ahead of the range he does it with

Great post Stu, thanks for that. What do you think one's raising range should be in a position in order to try and profitably set mine - 4%? 5%? Seems everyone set mines way too much if that's the case.

fx20736 said:

I think the Cliff note here is; If you have a decent (read: tight) image with medium pp's and you have position vs loose raiser you can flat his pf raise and then test him by re-raising his flop bet or betting if he checks??

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As CP just said, it's often much better to "float" a villain when IP against a high % c-bet and a weak range. This means calling the flop and betting the turn when checked to.

Have a look at this: https://www.cardschat.com/f53/floating-hunter-bick-dragthebar-184922/