$5 NLHE Full Ring: $5 NLHE Full Ring: Pocket JJ in a 4 bet hand- completely confusing

$5 NL HE Full Ring: $5 NL HE Full Ring: Pocket JJ in a 4 bet hand- completely confusing

This was in a Rush poker 5NL game, so I didn't really have a read on this guy. I've played quite a bit of Rush here lately so I really didn't want to toss JJ to a 4bet in 5NL. These guys will 4bet with 55, 78s, AKo type hands as well as any high PP or AKs. So I wanted to see a flop with my JJ and when we got there, and the turn, this guy threw me for a loop with his line. Just wanted to see if I played this correctly (even though the preflop call was probably a little weak). I'll start this at the river because this is where it really gets odd.

full tilt poker $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players - View hand 612347
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

SB: $4.52
BB: $6.22
UTG: $8.59
UTG+1: $1.49
UTG+2: $3.97
Hero (MP1): $23.22
MP2: $3.29
CO: $7.21
BTN: $4.81

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is MP1 with J ♥ J ♠
2 folds, UTG+2 raises to $0.10, Hero raises to $0.37, 1 fold, CO raises to $0.64, 4 folds, Hero calls $0.27

Flop: ($1.45) A ♥ 2 ♥ Q ♦ (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

Turn: ($1.45) K ♥ (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.05, Hero calls $0.05

River: ($1.55) 4 ♥ (2 players)
Hero bets $0.80, CO raises to $1.60, Hero ???

Third nuts, the straight flush never shows up here so second nuts effectively, don't particularly like flatting the 4bet pf but this looks like a standard call to me. I don't see re-raising here as an option I don't think - without a read, what's going to call a re-raise other than the nuts? And if he shoves, we can't call readless.

slycbnew said:

Third nuts, the straight flush never shows up here so second nuts effectively, don't particularly like flatting the 4bet pf but this looks like a standard call to me.

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Are you saying to lay this down, re-raise (I doubt), or shove? I flat called expecting to play fit of fold on the flop, but with his line played like it was, we got to the river way too cheap not to come along.

Sorry, not being very clear, I'm saying call his river raise, he only needs to not have the Qh like once out of 5 to make it ok (I expect to lose here the majority of the time) - the rambling is against re-raising/shoving the river. While I don't like the 4bet flat, I completely agree that it's insane to fold anywhere postflop as played.

Okay, that clears it up. Thanks.

honestly he probably has it more than 80% of the time and i'd fold pre too.

You have to call as played, because it's possible that he checked flop because he had AAA or he had KK and minraised turn when he hit his set. You can also beat all hands which don't include Qh.

Question: Why did you lead with a bet on the river ?

You've invested like 18BB in the pot already and you have the second/third nuts. This means that you have very good showdown hand, but you don't want to play for full stacks given the small size of the pot.

You had to let him bluff on the river and call up to a pot sized bet, but fold to a shove or overbet.I think this was the best line on the river

Easy call here. With the Qh (if he had QhQx), I think he’d reraise you more than just the min on the river. I’ve seen people make a move like that with 10h, 9h. Maybe he has 9h 9 or 10h 10. And I have seen ppl 4bet with medium PPs.

blueskies said:

Easy call here. With the Qh (if he had QhQx), I think he’d reraise you more than just the min on the river. I’ve seen people make a move like that with 10h, 9h. Maybe he has 9h 9 or 10h 10. And I have seen ppl 4bet with medium PPs.

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My thoughts were 99 and TT with a heart as well. The lead out by myself on the river was just me being utterly confused here. It was sort of a blocking bet/value bet.

The rest of the hand plays out itself as I really didn't want to let go of 3rd nuts here with the line he was playing.



Full Tilt Poker $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players - View hand 612347
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

SB: $4.52
BB: $6.22
UTG: $8.59
UTG+1: $1.49
UTG+2: $3.97
Hero (MP1): $23.22
MP2: $3.29
CO: $7.21
BTN: $4.81

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is MP1 with J :heart: J :spade:
2 folds, UTG+2 raises to $0.10, Hero raises to $0.37, 1 fold, CO raises to $0.64, 4 folds, Hero calls $0.27

Flop: ($1.45) A :heart: 2 :heart: Q :diamond: (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

Turn: ($1.45) K :heart: (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.05, Hero calls $0.05

River: ($1.55) 4 :heart: (2 players)
Hero bets $0.80, CO raises to $1.60, Hero raises to $6.35, CO raises to $6.52 all in, Hero calls $0.17

Final Pot: $14.59
Hero mucks J :heart: J :spade:
CO shows J :club: Q :heart: (a flush, Ace high)
CO wins $13.62
(Rake: $0.97)

I honestly thought I made a good call here as played. How wrong am I? And at .05/.10c should I really be letting go of JJ preflop to a 4bet that isn't even twice the size of my bet? Thanks for giving advice on this one because it really blew my mind when he turned his cards over and had that after 4betting pre-flop.

raising the river without the nuts is terrible on 4-card flush boards you will never get paid by Th.

Terrible river move... you can't make more money if you raise with Jh - you can only lose on this board..

What the heck is he doing in a 4bet pot with QJ? And what the heck are you doing calling a 4bet with JJ at 5nl? Haha, I would have put him on trip Aces, Kings, or Queens with that pre-flop action on that board. Call on the riv and hope his set of queens didn't have a Qh in it. Definitely don't raise the river. You could also consider leading the turn or raise/folding his min-bet on the turn as played. Probably not readless though because tons of 5nl players slowplay big hands. The line he took kinda looks like he got caught with his pants down on a bluff or has something like JJ himself.

If you have odds to set mine, you can call with JJ pre at 10nl. However, a 4 bet at 10nl Rush is rarely anything other than KK/AA.