$5 NLHE Full Ring: 2x pot raise on the river

jbbb

jbbb

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Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 72/33/2

Super donk. Massive range so I can value bet wide. I thought i'd have the best hand like 90% on the turn. On the river I started to doubt and thought maybe he'd hit a two pair or something. Anyway, call the river?

Poker Stars - $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em (7 players)
Poker Stars Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com

SB: $4.80
BB: $11.46
UTG: $6.56
MP: $6.17
MP+1: $5
CO: $4.93
BTN: $1.75
erkiad - Sitting Out

Pre-flop: ($0.07) is BB and dealt :jc4: :9c4:
UTG calls $0.05, 5 folds, BB checks

Flop: ($0.12) :3h4: :4h4: :js4: (2 players)
BB bets $0.10, UTG calls $0.10

Turn: ($0.32) :3h4: :4h4: :js4: :10d4: (2 players)
BB bets $0.20, UTG calls $0.20

River: ($0.72) :3h4: :4h4: :js4: :10d4: :2c4: (2 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $1.40, HERO
 
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ClubArrow77

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Since you label player as super donk, do you think he would play this aggressively with top pair with a higher kicker or a middle pair. Since he completed, he is on a wide range of hands and probably connected on the flop since he called your two raises but didn't reraise which could mean he has middle or bottom pair and is unsure or top pair with a weak kicker. Since you checked, he may have sensed weakness and is doubling the pot but which doesnt make sense to me unless he is trying to steal it on the river. I would be inclined to call and take a note for future reference I guess.
 
bgomez89

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ok so why did you check the river?
 
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dare22

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yes, why did you check the river?
 
jbbb

jbbb

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I was going for a check-call to keep the pot small.
If I bet like 60c into 70 then he raises to $1.50 it's a lot harder to call than checking and calling a 40-50c bet if he does decide to bet atall.
 
TylerN

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normally donks arent THAT aggressive and a raise on the river has u crushed. he will call river wider then bet river wider imo. bet river
 
seanDCFC

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Bet/fold is better than check/fold imo. I bet that river like 100% of the time. If they raise your river bet you can fold, but most of the time these players will just call.. By checking you give villain a chance to bluff and the overbet looks like a bluff.
 
acky100

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What tyler said but im still wondering if you should call or fold as played. personally im folding until i know he's capable of bluffing rivers, this is why betting is so much better, he would need some huge balls to reraise the river with air after you bet 3 streets.
 
bgomez89

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I was going for a check-call to keep the pot small.
If I bet like 60c into 70 then he raises to $1.50 it's a lot harder to call than checking and calling a 40-50c bet if he does decide to bet atall.

so you were checking to bluff catch? If this was the reason then you should call because that was your plan. If you were checking because you felt he has a better hand than you, then you need to check/fold.
 
jbbb

jbbb

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so you were checking to bluff catch? If this was the reason then you should call because that was your plan. If you were checking because you felt he has a better hand than you, then you need to check/fold.
Yeah I suppose I was bluff catching. Crazy russians can do anything so IMO it's a lot easier to check/call than to bet/fold. Atleast I can see whats he's playing and then make a note for later hands.
It turns out he had pure air.. which leads to me to the next hand.

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: $10.33
BB: $5.00
UTG: $7.77
UTG+1: $1.93
MP: $12.45
Hero (CO): $11.49
BTN: $14.07

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has A Q

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.15, BTN raises to $0.30, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.67, 2 players) A K 5
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.10, Hero raises to $0.25, BTN calls $0.15

Turn: ($1.17, 2 players) 4
Hero bets $0.65, BTN raises to $13.52 and is all-in, Hero??

Remember he's like 72/33 and showed down a total air bluff like half an hour ago. I'll post my thoughts and actions in a bit.
 
ben_rhyno

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Not thrilled on getting 200+ bb's in with top pair here and no redraw. I fold here ~95% of the time without a super strong read
 
acky100

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Ugh that doesnt look very nice, erm do we know anything about villain?
I dont like the way you raise flop to .25 this is still under half the pot, if you raised because you think villain is drawing or is generally weak then id rather raise closer to the pot size, dont know what to make to his shove over your bet on the turn this is very strong or very weak looking. The right move is probably very read dependant, im probably biting my nails and folding though.
 
jbbb

jbbb

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Not thrilled on getting 200+ bb's in with top pair here and no redraw. I fold here ~95% of the time without a super strong read
Ok so say his stack was like $3 we call his shove? What about $6? What limit would you give in terms of BB to what you're calling with?
Ugh that doesnt look very nice, erm do we know anything about villain?

That he's crazy and likes to bluff a lot.
I dont like the way you raise flop to .25 this is still under half the pot, if you raised because you think villain is drawing or is generally weak then id rather raise closer to the pot size,
Yeah good point the raise size is awful. He was calling down so light thought I thought I'd build the pot. However in heinsight a bigger bet would have been better as he would have called wide while also building the pot a lot faster.
dont know what to make to his shove over your bet on the turn this is very strong or very weak looking. The right move is probably very read dependant, im probably biting my nails and folding though.
Yeah at the time I thought it looked pretty weak and tilty. Also the 2x pot sized river bluff he showed down was playing on my mind. But then again apart from a bluff, I beat pretty much nothing. Sets, AK etc. I only beat QJ of hearts of spades.
Atleast I learnt something (however expensive the mistake was ;) )
 
acky100

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Ah right so the villain is the same one as before.... i presumed it was new because the seating is different.

Im guessing you called and lost? Is a hard decision when you know someone is capable of bluffing. Maybe you should make a note that this player can bluff x2 pot, but when he shoves more than this it might be that he wants you to think he is bluffing, risky though i'd still want to see if he is consistent in his bet sizing for bluffs and actual hands before i started trusting my reads. Apart from that i guess you can get away cheap enough in this type of hand and just wait until you do flop a decent hand that you dont mind him trying to bluff you off.
 
jbbb

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Ah right so the villain is the same one as before.... i presumed it was new because the seating is different.

Im guessing you called and lost? Is a hard decision when you know someone is capable of bluffing. Maybe you should make a note that this player can bluff x2 pot, but when he shoves more than this it might be that he wants you to think he is bluffing, risky though i'd still want to see if he is consistent in his bet sizing for bluffs and actual hands before i started trusting my reads. Apart from that i guess you can get away cheap enough in this type of hand and just wait until you do flop a decent hand that you dont mind him trying to bluff you off.

Yeah crazy russians tilt me so bad. I've seriously lost so many $12 pots in Omaha against em lol. It's my biggest mental weakness, I don't usually tilt that bad unless i've just lost at fifa haha

But yeah as you say, it's too marginal to be calling a 200BB shove with. Next hand!
 
ben_rhyno

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Ok first I 4b preflop against a 72/33. As played raise to 50c on the flop, making the pot $1.67. Turn is tricky leading for value for $1.30ish leads to a bloated pot with just top pair but doesn't give opponent a free card if he's on a flush, but presents a difficult decision when he raise shoves huge. Before commenting any further i'd like to know what better players such as c9, WVH and ChuckTs have to say.
Just to add, If the pot was roughly $2 and villain had $3 i'd probably just shove turn
 
bgomez89

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Yeah I suppose I was bluff catching. Crazy russians can do anything so IMO it's a lot easier to check/call than to bet/fold. Atleast I can see whats he's playing and then make a note for later hands.
It turns out he had pure air.. which leads to me to the next hand.

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: $10.33
BB: $5.00
UTG: $7.77
UTG+1: $1.93
MP: $12.45
Hero (CO): $11.49
BTN: $14.07

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has A Q

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.15, BTN raises to $0.30, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.67, 2 players) A K 5
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.10, Hero raises to $0.25, BTN calls $0.15

Turn: ($1.17, 2 players) 4
Hero bets $0.65, BTN raises to $13.52 and is all-in, Hero??

Remember he's like 72/33 and showed down a total air bluff like half an hour ago. I'll post my thoughts and actions in a bit.
flop raise size is horrible, needs to be at least .70+ and yeah im probably getting it in

Ok so say his stack was like $3 we call his shove? What about $6? What limit would you give in terms of BB to what you're calling with?

if his stack was less than 10 bucks id just shove pre over his 3bet.

Yeah good point the raise size is awful. He was calling down so light thought I thought I'd build the pot. However in heinsight a bigger bet would have been better as he would have called wide while also building the pot a lot faster.

yeah you cant build a big pot with small bets...
 
jbbb

jbbb

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if his stack was less than 10 bucks id just shove pre over his 3bet.

.

ehhhhhh... what?
Hypothetically...

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.15, BTN raises to $0.30, fold, fold, Hero raises to $9 and is all-in.

Not a great way to win $0.30 and I don't think he's gonna call wide enough to be profitable.

Ok first I 4b preflop against a 72/33. As played raise to 50c on the flop, making the pot $1.67. Turn is tricky leading for value for $1.30ish leads to a bloated pot with just top pair but doesn't give opponent a free card if he's on a flush, but presents a difficult decision when he raise shoves huge.
I don't really like play AQ OOP in a bit pot against a super maniac. Whats the advantages of 4betting pre? Don't we just fold out a lot of hands we can get value from like lower aces or Qx while making his range stronger in a bigger pot?

Just to add, If the pot was roughly $2 and villain had $3 i'd probably just shove turn
Yeah i can agree with that and your line you suggested looks a lot better.
 
bgomez89

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ehhhhhh... what?
Hypothetically...

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.15, BTN raises to $0.30, fold, fold, Hero raises to $9 and is all-in.

Not a great way to win $0.30 and I don't think he's gonna call wide enough to be profitable.

uh, did you see his stats? This guy is a maniac and AQ does not flop that well and if we miss, are you really willing to call down with A high? So yeah, I like shoving pre>folding>calling OOP
 
jbbb

jbbb

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Fold to 5-bet in this specific case or 6-bet all in?
 
ben_rhyno

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Yeh I think that would be ok, if he had a normal 100bb stack i'd probably stack off pre
 
jbbb

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You can probably tell i'm being results orientated and that he's smashing me, lol.
You still doing the 2NL prop bet?
 
ben_rhyno

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Nope i hated it, back at 25NL now :D
 
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