$5 NLHE 6-max: zoom Blocking bet OTR with bad hand vs agro w made bad hand

B

braveslice

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Note villain: agro

You can give me a lecture too (I obviously need it), but please also discuss about the river block bet vs agro

Reason for me to bet river was that he will most likely always bet the river. Should I just fold river, call or is there any merit to block bet?

PokerStars - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 86.6 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 22.22, 3Bet Preflop: 25.00, hands: 9)
Hero (SB): 100.4 BB
BB: 151.6 BB (VPIP: 17.39, PFR: 15.22, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 47)
UTG: 100.4 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
MP: 170 BB
CO: 59.6 BB

Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has J 8

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 2.8 BB, Hero calls 2.4 BB, fold

Flop: (6.6 BB, 2 players) 9 Q A
Hero checks, BTN bets 3.8 BB, Hero calls 3.8 BB

Turn: (14.2 BB, 2 players) J
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: (14.2 BB, 2 players) 6
Hero bets 6 BB, BTN calls 6 BB

Hero shows J 8 (One Pair, Jacks)
(Pre 42%, Flop 18%, Turn 20%)
BTN shows A 2 (One Pair, Aces)
(Pre 58%, Flop 82%, Turn 80%)
BTN wins 25.2 BB
 
N

nkat

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"Reason for me to bet river was that he will most likely always bet the river."

id guess he checks 80-85% of the time
 
B

braveslice

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Nah he would bet any hand he miss. (and any hand he made)

So call, but calling feels totally wrong.

Edit: so fold?
Edit2: or did i just underestimate the power of A in the flop? Maybe you are right nkat.
 
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IPlay

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Fold pre, fold flop and if he is aggro and we have a bluff catcher, let him bluff. You don't block bet 3rd pair vs an aggro.
 
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nkat

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Nah he would bet any hand he miss. (and any hand he made)

So call, but calling feels totally wrong.

Edit: so fold?
Edit2: or did i just underestimate the power of A in the flop? Maybe you are right nkat.


"nah" bluff freq low here. super easy c.f.

if he bets he has a2-a8 here 70% KQ 5%, Q6/J6/66 2% weird slow play 1% bluffing rest
 
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nkat

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flops fine..

pf isn't terrible but fold best. 3b better than call
 
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braveslice

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Fold pre, fold flop and if he is aggro and we have a bluff catcher, let him bluff. You don't block bet 3rd pair vs an aggro.

Rolf, never done it before (in purpose at least). I don't think I'm man enough to call if he bets close to the pot, because the stupidity of my play already started to haunt me. In this case, choosing between folding or blocking, is folding river still better than blocking?
 
IPlay

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flops fine..

pf isn't terrible but fold best. 3b better than call

What is our plan for the turn when we call flop? Our hand is almost never ever good on flop so what are we hoping for? To turn a BD flush draw and check raise?

And Brave, AP once villain checks turn I am leaning towards check/folding if he bets the river because that is more of a thin value line and villain is going to have a weak Ax or a strong Q pretty often.
 
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nkat

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... it's a hand that's at the bottom of our floating range (I'm folding small pps). but im not calling pf to fold gutshots mostly and this isn't an occasion that I will... also take into account that ppl cbet a little too much and also a polarized range.

Folding certainly isn't bad though by any means... i just think calling is a bit better as a part of an overall game plan... (but i do disagree with pf)

turns... mostly c/f sometimes c/r.. bdfd prob best to c/c
 
IPlay

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... it's a hand that's at the bottom of our floating range (I'm folding small pps). but im not calling pf to fold gutshots mostly and this isn't an occasion that I will... also take into account that ppl cbet a little too much and also a polarized range.

Folding certainly isn't bad though by any means... i just think calling is a bit better as a part of an overall game plan... (but i do disagree with pf)

turns... mostly c/f sometimes c/r.. bdfd prob best to c/c

What makes you say this hand should be at the bottom of our floating range? Then you advocate c/calling when we hit the gin card of a bdfd? This is pure spew. First of all we shouldn't even have this hand in our range when we flat from the SB and 2nd if we do want to continue past the flop we should be raising our gut shot and not flatting. Do you even pot odds bro?

Generally speaking we do not want to float aggressive opponents OOP when the board has 2 overs to our hand and we at best are going to hit a bdfd or running 2 pair.
 
Aces2w1n

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I think if prefer to have kq in this spot with ur play and get values for Jx.

Its a hard board to miss on and you have 3rd pair. You will get called with babypairs who dont believe but i dont think its often enough to be profitable.

have Kq and get value from Qx Jx and also baby pairs. Like iplay said a bluff catcher.

also paired boards are better imo
 
N

nkat

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What makes you say this hand should be at the bottom of our floating range? Then you advocate c/calling when we hit the gin card of a bdfd? This is pure spew. First of all we shouldn't even have this hand in our range when we flat from the SB and 2nd if we do want to continue past the flop we should be raising our gut shot and not flatting. Do you even pot odds bro?

Generally speaking we do not want to float aggressive opponents OOP when the board has 2 overs to our hand and we at best are going to hit a bdfd or running 2 pair.


it's a good "air" hand to c/c on flop. c/c on turn cuz i don't wanna put all money in and c/r/folding is lame. I don't do pot odds, no.. I think in terms of equity and ranges.

I'm not sure why you are getting so defensive. feel free to ignore my advice....
 
IPlay

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it's a good "air" hand to c/c on flop. c/c on turn cuz i don't wanna put all money in and c/r/folding is lame. I don't do pot odds, no.. I think in terms of equity and ranges.

I'm not sure why you are getting so defensive. feel free to ignore my advice....

Nothing personal but it is pretty awful advice and Braveslice is a member that post hands often and is trying to improve his game. So I am going to help him get proper answers to his hands. We don't need a float with air range OOP against what looks like a lagtard. Especially at 5NL.

Oh and here is our equity against villains range.

Jh8h 21.84%

99+,A2s+,K6s+,Q8s+,J9s+,T9s,98s,A2o+,K8o+,Q9o+,J9o+,T9o 78.16%

Oh and here is when the pot odds that you neglect come in.

6.6+3.8+3.8=14.2 3.8/14.2=~27%

So here we are, we have ~22% equity against his range and need ~27% to make a call so pot odds dictate, spew. Not to mention we are OOP against an aggro that is going to make us fold a lot of turns so we rarely get to realize what little equity we have.

Morale of the story, fold pre.
 
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nkat

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good points.. perhaps my advice wasn't the best...
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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good points.. perhaps my advice wasn't the best...

It is hard to push ego aside and we all go through this. Well done man and keep up speaking out. Catching on things in your game which isnt good is the best for you personally, but often feels opposite :)
 
weldphaser

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yeah, def take iplay's advice here. after you see all the reasons being stuck post fl. its easy fold pre
 
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