$5 NLHE 6-max: What do we do on the turn? (TT called from blinds)

Lord help me. Too passive?

Yatahay Network - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 183.2 BB
BTN: 136.6 BB
SB: 100 BB
BB: 212.2 BB
Hero (UTG): 145 BB
MP: 124 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has T:spade: T:diamond:

Hero raises to 3.4 BB, fold, fold, fold, SB calls 3 BB, fold

Flop: (7.8 BB, 2 players) 6:club: 4:heart: 5:spade:
SB checks, Hero bets 5.8 BB, SB calls 5.8 BB

Turn: (19.4 BB, 2 players) 8:spade:
SB checks, Hero checks

River: (19.4 BB, 2 players) K:spade:
SB bets 10.2 BB, fold

SB wins 18.6 BB

My line there will often be to bet the turn (maybe 60% pot) and fold to a raise. If he just calls the bet, try to check behind on the river. If he donks into you on the river after just calling the turn, you pretty much have to fold.

I think your line is fine, he is from SB don't see what worse one pair hands he can have really, or what bluffs that c/c flop.

A good option may be to bet turn something like 1/4 pot to see the river for cheap, I don't think you'll get raised off your hand by worse or even two pairs and sets.

Flop
Even you flopped an overpair, this was a pretty bad flop for you, since its so dripping wet, and you dont have a draw. If you bet here, it is mostly in the hope of ending the hand, which mean, you are almost turning TT into a bluff. I dont hate the C-bet, but checking back would also be a totally fine option.

Turn
This was literally the worst card in the deck, since the best draw now got there. Absolutely no point in betting again, since he is rarely calling with worse.

River
Clear fold. A million different hands beat you, and he is never betting a worse hand for value.

I would raise smaller preflop. Max 3BB and depending on how wide you want to open only open 2.5BB.

Play on the flop is ok. I wouldn’t bet turn because I wouldn’t know which worse Hand should call.

Therefore I like how you played the hand!

I think you played the hand well (as stated above). Assuming this is a typical game dynamic, I'd play it as you did. NH.

Capped ranges UTG vs SB Leveling Wars

teh_colonel_saigon said:

Lord help me. Too passive?

Yatahay Network - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 183.2 BB
BTN: 136.6 BB
SB: 100 BB
BB: 212.2 BB
Hero (UTG): 145 BB
MP: 124 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has T♠ T♦

Hero raises to 3.4 BB, fold, fold, fold, SB calls 3 BB, fold

Flop: (7.8 BB, 2 players) 6♣ 4♥ 5♠
SB checks, Hero bets 5.8 BB, SB calls 5.8 BB

Turn: (19.4 BB, 2 players) 8♠
SB checks, Hero checks

River: (19.4 BB, 2 players) K♠
SB bets 10.2 BB, fold

SB wins 18.6 BB

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Hello there, good evening teh_colonel_saigon, how do you do? Thanks a lot for sharing your hand very good one!
As 0815am told, your preflop raise is a little bit big, but the situation is ideal: we are going to play in position versus a player out of position, that's good for us.
With no information about the SB player, I would simply C-bet this flop in a very high frequency (not always), to 1/2 pot at maximum.
It seems that both players have capped ranges in a situation like this. UTG will have a slight advantage postflop because it has position and a made hand, however, SB's calling range tends to be capped/strong most of times. (If you consider the player called versus 3.4x versus UTG it should be strong)
Having said that, I don't expect many 32, 87, A3, A2 in SB's range. SB is going to call you with all the pocket pairs (IMO), a smart/tricky player can flat from time to time AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AK, to trap both UTG and BB, and, although the board is connected, we don't see many hands that SB could've called that are beating us right now.
SB will have more 66, 55, 44 and 88 than us, but those are minimal concern.
I don't know, when you check turn it seems you are giving up the hand, and SB's capped range still has some hands that could be behind you such as 33, 22 and 99 and a couple of strong broadways. (we don't know the player this is why we have to guess a lot)
Now, comes the preflop and flop problems: If you raise a regular size of 3x and bets a regular size of 1/2 pot in the flop, it will be a very easy call in the river, even when it comes the Ks. Because you have inflated the pot very much preflop and flop, you don't have an easy call in the River, because as fundiver199 said, there are just a couple of combos that you are beating and a thousand of combos that are smashing you. :bandit:
You raise 3x and then bets 1/2 pot in the flop, so 6+3+3 = 12 blinds. If it comes in check to the river and SB bets 4.5 blinds until 6 blinds it is an easy call with our value hand. If SB bets 7 to 9 blinds we will be in a very close spot, but even so I believe it would be a exploitative call, not to allow SB to bluff us very much. If Sb bets 10 blinds or Pot, easy fold anyways. (depending on the player, we fold because we have no information)
What happened is that you blowed the pot very much, not controlling the sizes, than in the flop there were 7.8 blinds + 5.8+5.8 = 19.4 blinds in the turn, very hard to control a situation like this.
If you are playing so unbalanced versus regulars, you are simply burning money buddy.
If you are playing so unbalanced versus fishes, you are simply printing the green ones
I hope it helps you teh_colonel_saigon! Any comments, critics, ideias, please, do not hesitate to post it!
Thanks Cardschat!

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

I probably would just bet the turn for information. He either calls where he either has you beat or at least still has the draw wich means that he might check back to you on the river because he thinks you gonna bet so you get at least a cheap showdown. or he raises and then its an easy fold. If he folds you are lucky obviosly.

You showing weakness on the turn by not getting the pot bigger wich means you dont have that hand that beats most others

zhilipp said:

I probably would just bet the turn for information. He either calls where he either has you beat or at least still has the draw wich means that he might check back to you on the river because he thinks you gonna bet so you get at least a cheap showdown. or he raises and then its an easy fold. If he folds you are lucky obviosly.

You showing weakness on the turn by not getting the pot bigger wich means you dont have that hand that beats most others

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While this is true, he simply seems to be beaten in this hand and not all hands are about "winning." If this session continues, the hero has now set up a golden opportunity to check the nuts in a similar situation to induce a donk river bet.

I usually bet the turn and try to check through river. An over pair is usually good for 2 streets of value. Checking looks like missed over cards to alot if people, and can induce bluffs in a spot where your either way ahead or easy behind.

jordanbillie said:

While this is true, he simply seems to be beaten in this hand and not all hands are about "winning." If this session continues, the hero has now set up a golden opportunity to check the nuts in a similar situation to induce a donk river bet.

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I see your point. But I´m not sure if this would have that much impact online because lots of peopleare not paying that much attention like on a live game.
Probably most depending on the style wich option you choose.

(I´m pretty sure the grammar isn´t right but im not a native speaker so i hope its fine)

fundiver199 said:

Flop
Even you flopped an overpair, this was a pretty bad flop for you, since its so dripping wet, and you dont have a draw. If you bet here, it is mostly in the hope of ending the hand, which mean, you are almost turning TT into a bluff. I dont hate the C-bet, but checking back would also be a totally fine option.

Turn
This was literally the worst card in the deck, since the best draw now got there. Absolutely no point in betting again, since he is rarely calling with worse.

River
Clear fold. A million different hands beat you, and he is never betting a worse hand for value.

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Alltough x back flop would be the solver play I don't like it at these stakes. There is plenty of people who call ridiculous hands in the sb. Calling in the sb as a default is pretty bad imo but that's a different story. Thus there is plenty of value from single pair hands which will atleast peal for 1 street VS utg. Also most people are to weak to turn these hands into a bluff on the river, so they'll usually check. Therefore I like you're line VS regulars but Vs the population I'd play Heros line.

Other than that I agree with my forsayers I think the hand is played well.

Out of curiosity what's the play here then? X back flop, x back turn and bet river to fold to a raise? I'd say if sb bets turn we will have to call atleast once and if sb c-bets river we fold. Also do we ever call a riverbet if x/x x/x? I feel we lack information then.

Luepso said:

Alltough x back flop would be the solver play I don't like it at these stakes. There is plenty of people who call ridiculous hands in the sb.

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Sure. If he is someone, who will call in SB with way to many hands, and then also pay a flop bet with his A4 offsuit, because he flopped bottom pair, then we can absolutely widen our value betting range.

Imo this is way too passive. I'm likely betting the turn to extract value from FDs, 6x, 8x, 99, etc. As played though, I'd probably just fold the river...

bgomez89 said:

Imo this is way too passive. I'm likely betting the turn to extract value from FDs, 6x, 8x, 99, etc. As played though, I'd probably just fold the river...

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Agreed with this. If we think that SB has a tight range, then just bet turn for value, maybe there are some AX that will call (like A4-A6, or some AT+), otherwise, you give them a free river card.
Also, I doubt JJ is just calling from SB, so we shouldn't worry about bigger pocket pair.
Another thing to think about is that SB is more inclined to check river for traps, after turn went check - bet -call.

Also, how many 7X do we think SB can have so that we can be scared of the 8? IMO you showed a lot of weakness by checking back the turn and the river is a fold the way it is played.

I like your line if your utg range is tight.. You could bluff catch the river there, but it's somewhat villan dependent. C- betting the turn has done merit, but it really depends on your opening range. I plan all pairs, AK, and occasional suited aces/suited connectors utg, so I c-bet about every flop and drive most turns as well.

After looking again. Seems I evaluated a little different.

Luepso said:

Alltough x back flop would be the solver play I don't like it at these stakes. There is plenty of people who call ridiculous hands in the sb. Calling in the sb as a default is pretty bad imo but that's a different story. Thus there is plenty of value from single pair hands which will atleast peal for 1 street VS utg. Also most people are to weak to turn these hands into a bluff on the river, so they'll usually check. Therefore I like you're line VS regulars but Vs the population I'd play Heros line.

Other than that I agree with my forsayers I think the hand is played well.

Out of curiosity what's the play here then? X back flop, x back turn and bet river to fold to a raise? I'd say if sb bets turn we will have to call atleast once and if sb c-bets river we fold. Also do we ever call a riverbet if x/x x/x? I feel we lack information then.

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I'm pretty sure that even solver doesn't check back this flop.