$5 NLHE 6-max: what do you think about the line taken?

serna · May 25, 2019

https://replayer.runitup.com/hands/51f0f9d98e Hello! should we Cbet on his board?? on the turn, once the villain checks , Im assuming he doesnt have much 9 in his rage (however, he may slowplay some of them), so on the river my intention was to make him fold J, k and maybe some A. what do you think about it?

greatgame230 · May 25, 2019

Hi, what would the villain's range be for you? in the preflop he called your raise, the Cbet was not the best there was a flush project on the flop as well as a J and an A I agree that you would not think that the 910o was not in his range but his hand should be between AJ, A10, KQ, KJ, K10 or Qx some of that he should have although he was very loose, I think that for a Cbet to work in that case it had to be very high and it was too risky from my point of view, I would have done the same raise in the pre-flop for being a 6 max table but after that flop it was check/fold.

Misaki · May 25, 2019

no, you shouldn't cbet this. You have many better combinations of hands to cbet there. PPs unfortunately are in check/fold line.
Anyway without good postflop skills 44 you can just fold preflop. For most of players small pocket pairs are losing hands on early postion in 6max games. When you don't hit a set it's always problematic to play it profitable on tight ranges.

PaxMundi · May 25, 2019

It's not the greatest board to cbet as it's quite wet but i dont mind the cbet Vs fish.Villains range is going to be alot of mid pairs and small pairs depending how loose they are. And T9o means villain is very fishy and has a ton of junk to fold out on this flop and Ace high flops are generally good for us to cbet. But yes 22-44 you can just fold pre Utg most people aren't profitable with them in that position.

serna · May 25, 2019

Fvendal said:
It's not the greatest board to cbet as it's quite wet but i dont mind the cbet Vs fish.Villains range is going to be alot of mid pairs and small pairs depending how loose they are. And T9o means villain is very fishy and has a ton of junk to fold out on this flop and Ace high flops are generally good for us to cbet. But yes 22-44 you can just fold pre Utg most people aren't profitable with them in that position.

thanks for anyones feedback.If you cbet this what is your plan for next streets?

Misaki · May 25, 2019

Fvendal said:
It's not the greatest board to cbet as it's quite wet but i dont mind the cbet Vs fish.Villains range is going to be alot of mid pairs and small pairs depending how loose they are. And T9o means villain is very fishy and has a ton of junk to fold out on this flop and Ace high flops are generally good for us to cbet. But yes 22-44 you can just fold pre Utg most people aren't profitable with them in that position.

totally disagree. If he is a recreational player then he has a lot of Ax, a lot mid cards, a lot of offsuited broadways, a lot hands like 87o and considering this board as Ace high is pretty bad. There is huge difference between A62 rainbow and AJ9 with possible flush draw. Generally we have less fold equity than vs normal reg in my opinion, because recreational player will have there more combinations which hit that board and he won't be able to fold any combinations there except some small PPs.

it's a clear check/fold on flop vs unk because our playability on future streets is like 0 and fold equity is also pretty small. That's why small pocket pairs are pretty bad from that position. Because there are always overcards, ranges are tight and on many boards we just have to give up and it's really hard to make profit with them. Maybe in zoom games it's better to open it as people are more on tight side and we often just take the blinds but on regular tables in vacuum I would be very cautious with small pps.

PaxMundi · May 25, 2019

serna said:
thanks for anyones feedback.If you cbet this what is your plan for next streets?

I would just be one and done and stabbing on the flop if i cbet here.The hand has very little chance of improving so your just realizing the flop fold equity when you cbet.It's best to be ip though because then you can check back the turn and atleast realize the hands raw equity as well. But your going to be generating like 60%+ folds so i dont think it's a terrible cbet although i dont disgree with a check fold either. But i would generally stab on Axx flops even semi co-ordinated vs an mp call. As i think they are heavily weighted to low and mid pp's and some suited connectors and our UTG range has alot of Ax.They dont have a ton of Ax and off suit broadway cold calls in their range unless they are very fishy. In which case they just have a ton of junk and our fold equity increases neither of which is a bad situation for us imo.

PaxMundi · May 25, 2019

Misaki said:
totally disagree. If he is a recreational player then he has a lot of Ax, a lot mid cards, a lot of offsuited broadways, a lot hands like 87o and considering this board as Ace high is pretty bad. There is huge difference between A62 rainbow and AJ9 with possible flush draw. Generally we have less fold equity than vs normal reg in my opinion, because recreational player will have there more combinations which hit that board and he won't be able to fold any combinations there except some small PPs.

it's a clear check/fold on flop vs unk because our playability on future streets is like 0 and fold equity is also pretty small. That's why small pocket pairs are pretty bad from that position. Because there are always overcards, ranges are tight and on many boards we just have to give up and it's really hard to make profit with them. Maybe in zoom games it's better to open it as people are more on tight side and we often just take the blinds but on regular tables in vacuum I would be very cautious with small pps.

Alot of people open 22-44 utg these days and i dont disagree with it they might be profitable with them from ep i dont know.And i dont disagree with either check folding the flop or cbetting here as i dont think either is a terrible decision imo.

Misaki · May 25, 2019

Fvendal said:
Alot of people open 22-44 utg these days and i dont disagree with it they might be profitable with them from ep i dont know.And i dont disagree with either check folding the flop or cbetting here as i dont think either is a terrible decision imo.

me and my friends were checking our databases and how PPs play on utg. Problem is that people lose money with small pps because they cbet too much. Good example is this spot. We think we have fold equity, we try to find some combinations which villain can fold but no one really think about ratio of hands which don't fold vs hands which fold. There are just too many combinations which will continue vs our cbet. Because field is bad I prefer to assume that people call too much and possibility that villain is a bad player is really big. So generally people just like to call too many Ax, like to call too many broadways and bad players likes to call so many weak hands like 98o, K9o, 87o etc. Just count the combinations. 6 combos for random PP vs 12 combos of any offsuited hands. How many combinations of PPs will villain have compared to his offsuited combos+suited combos, Ax combos. This board hits him so much that cbetting there is just loosing a money. And problem is that we can't really barrel anything except set. 2 outs. Not so many.

Opening small pps of course have some sense on micro tables but most of the time we should play it fit or fold and don't cbet too much, because it kills our profitable preflop decision.

PaxMundi · May 25, 2019

Misaki said:
me and my friends were checking our databases and how PPs play on utg. Problem is that people lose money with small pps because they cbet too much. Good example is this spot. We think we have fold equity, we try to find some combinations which villain can fold but no one really think about ratio of hands which don't fold vs hands which fold. There are just too many combinations which will continue vs our cbet. Because field is bad I prefer to assume that people call too much and possibility that villain is a bad player is really big. So generally people just like to call too many Ax, like to call too many broadways and bad players likes to call so many weak hands like 98o, K9o, 87o etc. Just count the combinations. 6 combos for random PP vs 12 combos of any offsuited hands. How many combinations of PPs will villain have compared to his offsuited combos+suited combos, Ax combos. This board hits him so much that cbetting there is just loosing a money. And problem is that we can't really barrel anything except set. 2 outs. Not so many.

Opening small pps of course have some sense on micro tables but most of the time we should play it fit or fold and don't cbet too much, because it kills our profitable preflop decision.

Ill conceed to a check fold if you have done the range work im certainly not opposed to check folding here.I dont personally open 22-44 utg myself and as you say if we fold preflop we dont bleed chips postlop.People should experiment with ranges and find out what's profitable but most aren't profitable with 22-44 from ep as far as im aware.

maxi_j · Jun 4, 2019

I would think about folding 22-33 pre and maybee 44. but in micro-limits or vs fish in blinds why not.

Basically you X/F any flop that has JTXss J9Xss T9Xss. "A"even hits more his range.

What do expect to fold him on flop? Look at all possibly cards.
Here he only can fold KT if he is smart. If he smart he wouldnt cal KT pre vs UTG raise.

zuker · Jun 5, 2019

cbet against fish is usless. he wont fold if he hit anything

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$5 NLHE 6-max: what do you think about the line taken?

serna

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