$5 NLHE 6-max: What do I do on this river?

MattJM68 · Mar 23, 2018

Feel free to analyse the rest of the hand, but my main question is on the river decision. Firstly, do I bet? I'm fairly confident I should. Secondly, if so, how much?

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BB): 351.2 BB
UTG: 127.2 BB (VPIP: 28.21, PFR: 21.79, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 79)
CO: 101 BB (VPIP: 18.87, PFR: 13.21, 3Bet Preflop: 9.68, Hands: 53)
BTN: 101.6 BB (VPIP: 59.26, PFR: 22.22, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 55)
SB: 125.2 BB (VPIP: 29.69, PFR: 24.22, 3Bet Preflop: 9.62, Hands: 131)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 4:club: A:club:

fold, CO raises to 3 BB, BTN calls 3 BB, SB calls 2.6 BB, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop: (12 BB, 4 players) J:club: 3:heart: 2:club:
SB checks, Hero bets 7.6 BB, CO calls 7.6 BB, fold, SB calls 7.6 BB

Turn: (34.8 BB, 3 players) 5:heart:
SB checks, Hero bets 27.4 BB, fold, SB calls 27.4 BB

River: (89.6 BB, 2 players) K:heart:
SB checks, Hero bets 27 BB,

RakeMyLife · Mar 23, 2018

Flop: I prefer check-raise here, but leading out is fine if you think it might get checked around.

Turn: Good bet. At this point, they are not putting you on a straight.

River: Absolutely bet. You lose to a flush, but he would have had to back into it which is always highly unlikely, esp bc there were no free cards.

In terms of bet sizing, that's when you (always) have to consider villain and his range. Given his passive line and loose preflop stats, any big J is in his range (AJ,KJ,QJ) and probably some mid-J hands as well (J10s, J9s, J8s). Just as likely, he has a missed flush. If he has a missed draw he's folding anyway, so what would you call with a pair of Jacks on a board like that?

MattJM68 · Mar 23, 2018

RakeMyLife said:
Flop: I prefer check-raise here, but leading out is fine if you think it might get checked around.

Yeah I usually like to check-raise with my sets, 2 pair, and semi bluffs, but this board shouldn't give anyone any monsters, so I opted to lead, looking to barrel multiple streets and really put pressure on some weak J's

RakeMyLife said:
In terms of bet sizing, that's when you (always) have to consider villain and his range. Given his passive line and loose preflop stats, any big J is in his range (AJ,KJ,QJ) and probably some mid-J hands as well (J10s, J9s, J8s). Just as likely, he has a missed flush. If he has a missed draw he's folding anyway, so what would you call with a pair of Jacks on a board like that?

Yeah I basically put him on a Jack, so went around 25%~30% to get value. Think he's probably calling big with KJ and obviously any sets he was weirdly slowplaying as well as flushes that beat me.

Also, whats the plan when he goes over me, is this a bet and call the shove or am I bet folding here???

DougPkrMonsta · Mar 23, 2018

I'm usually bombing this river when I play cash games, 90bb in the pot after the turn and less than a pot sized bet for the river.

If they hit running hearts so be it, but playing aggressively gets me looked up more often than others, even AJ will call sometimes (that's why I have more buy-ins in reserve).

I don't like leading the flop, let CO c-bet it and then check-raise or just call depending on other action IMO.

After that turn card you shouldn't be looking to do much other than get all-in by the river so your bet size / action should be according to what you think will get that done.

Good luck to you!

RakeMyLife · Mar 24, 2018

MattJM68 said:
Yeah I usually like to check-raise with my sets, 2 pair, and semi bluffs, but this board shouldn't give anyone any monsters, so I opted to lead, looking to barrel multiple streets and really put pressure on some weak J's

Yeah I basically put him on a Jack, so went around 25%~30% to get value. Think he's probably calling big with KJ and obviously any sets he was weirdly slowplaying as well as flushes that beat me.

Also, whats the plan when he goes over me, is this a bet and call the shove or am I bet folding here???

You’re not expecting him to come over the top here, so if he does you reassess. As usual, it would come down to whether he’s capable of bluffing or not...

QA77 · Mar 24, 2018

I would bet big on the river and try to get max value. If I was bluffing here, I would bet around 70% pot so why change it with the straight? You can have a J and bet what you did but I would almost always check call that.

MattJM68 · Mar 24, 2018

QA77 said:
I would bet big on the river and try to get max value. If I was bluffing here, I would bet around 70% pot so why change it with the straight? You can have a J and bet what you did but I would almost always check call that.

I get ya, was worried about over repping my hand. I find that at $0.02/$0.05 people love to chase draws and thus losts of people hit draws, so people become accustomed to a flush competing river to impact the hand a lot. I was worried about if I bet 70% he folds everything worse but looking back at it that wasn't the case.

However, say I bet 50-70%, whats the plan when villain puts the rest in?

MattJM68 · Mar 24, 2018

RakeMyLife said:
You’re not expecting him to come over the top here, so if he does you reassess. As usual, it would come down to whether he’s capable of bluffing or not...

I'm not a big fan of reassessing, I normally like to have a plan before I make a decision, e.g. I'm gunna bet and call a raise of up to 2.5x or i'm gunna bet fold this, because if not, I know I will end up calling too much as my default will be i've bet so I shouldn't fold.

Also, what am I assessing??? The villain has three options and I only need to react to one of them, so why not come up with a plan first and then choose my bet size accordingly, e.g. if I am calling all raises, why not bet smaller to induce some bluff shoves? Or if I am going to bet fold, I might bet bigger to get max value and to leave zero room for him to consider bluffing so I am more sure my fold is correct.

Did any of that make sense???, it's 4am and I need a coffee.

RakeMyLife · Mar 25, 2018

MattJM68 said:
I'm not a big fan of reassessing, I normally like to have a plan before I make a decision, e.g. I'm gunna bet and call a raise of up to 2.5x or i'm gunna bet fold this, because if not, I know I will end up calling too much as my default will be i've bet so I shouldn't fold.

Also, what am I assessing??? The villain has three options and I only need to react to one of them, so why not come up with a plan first and then choose my bet size accordingly, e.g. if I am calling all raises, why not bet smaller to induce some bluff shoves? Or if I am going to bet fold, I might bet bigger to get max value and to leave zero room for him to consider bluffing so I am more sure my fold is correct.

Did any of that make sense???, it's 4am and I need a coffee.

I feel like, as a general rule, one should always be willing to reassess a hand/street when given more information. Good example in live poker: you are pretty sure you’re beat and ready to fold when an opponent bets, but when he does you notice a tell that makes you think he’s bluffing (e.g., bets out before counting his chips or splashes the pot). That new information should affect your original assessment of the hand.

In this particular hand, the range your putting him on wouldn’t result in a check-raise on the river. Therefore, you would need to reasses whether that range is accurate or not when he does make that play (you might still reach the same conclusion). If you try to assume any and all scenarios, you may limit the accuracy of your read and appropriate bet size.

MattJM68 · Mar 25, 2018

RakeMyLife said:
I feel like, as a general rule, one should always be willing to reassess a hand/street when given more information. Good example in live poker: you are pretty sure you’re beat and ready to fold when an opponent bets, but when he does you notice a tell that makes you think he’s bluffing (e.g., bets out before counting his chips or splashes the pot). That new information should affect your original assessment of the hand.

In this particular hand, the range your putting him on wouldn’t result in a check-raise on the river. Therefore, you would need to reasses whether that range is accurate or not when he does make that play (you might still reach the same conclusion). If you try to assume any and all scenarios, you may limit the accuracy of your read and appropriate bet size.

I'm not saying that you can't use new information in your decision making, and of course playing live you can go with a read if you're confident, but this is online so the only reads I will get are on bet sizing.

Therefore it seems appropriate to have a plan before I bet out.

However I agree that he probably doesn't have a value check raising range here. Therefore, should I go big for value or small to induce?

Think I prefer big looking back.

Bozovicdj · Mar 25, 2018

I think you played this hand near perfect. You have built the pot on the flop where you had SD and NFD. Valued it on the turn, where I would personally go for 1/2 pot bet cause I don't want to scare bad Jx hands away with 80% pot bet as you made it.
River: it is a clear bet, and I like the small size because I want villain to go over the top with a set or possibly top 2 pair (KJ is definitely part of villain's range). Therefore I would always call if villain shoved the river.Put yourself in villain's shoes, would you just check the river if you had hit the flush? Why if there is a chance that opponent (hero in our case) might check back, making villain lose value. Also, if villain did hit a flush, his shove, instead of a check, would look so much like a bluff as much as a value bet, making it more possible to get a call.

All that being said, it is a good small raise, that I would want opponent to come over the top with a re-raise. I can only advise, if you do think you would bet-fold the river if villain shoved all in, then don't raise at all. More often then not, you will find yourself folding better hands to bluffs on the account of being scared about what villain has.

MattJM68 · Mar 25, 2018

Bozovicdj said:
I think you played this hand near perfect. You have built the pot on the flop where you had SD and NFD. Valued it on the turn, where I would personally go for 1/2 pot bet cause I don't want to scare bad Jx hands away with 80% pot bet as you made it.
River: it is a clear bet, and I like the small size because I want villain to go over the top with a set or possibly top 2 pair (KJ is definitely part of villain's range). Therefore I would always call if villain shoved the river.Put yourself in villain's shoes, would you just check the river if you had hit the flush? Why if there is a chance that opponent (hero in our case) might check back, making villain lose value. Also, if villain did hit a flush, his shove, instead of a check, would look so much like a bluff as much as a value bet, making it more possible to get a call.

All that being said, it is a good small raise, that I would want opponent to come over the top with a re-raise. I can only advise, if you do think you would bet-fold the river if villain shoved all in, then don't raise at all. More often then not, you will find yourself folding better hands to bluffs on the account of being scared about what villain has.

I was with you until the last sentense. Now let me preface this by saying I rarely use a bet fold strategy, but this seems like one of those times where it could be ok. The only time I bet fold is where i have the 2nd/3rd nuts and know I am confident that I'm only getting raised by the nuts. Also my sizing would affect my decision, if i bet big, and got raised I would be more likely to fold as only a mad opponent would bluff raise someone with such a strong uncapped range. As I went smaller here, I left an opportunity for some bluffs to shove over me, so i wouldnt fold.

Main point: although it seems bad, sometimes you have to bet fold, I'm never checking my straight there and if I think hes never bluff check raising me them I should fold right??

1dkp0k3r · Mar 27, 2018

I would bet big on the river, make it look like a bluff on missed club draw. All draws will fold, two pair and sets call, and you can get hero called by one pair hands as weak as a pair of 5's (54 missed straight turned a pair puts you on missed clubs), even pocket pairs from sixes to Tens.

The only hand that you would be scared of making a flush is something with the

. I think we can eliminate the

, since he did not raise preflop,

is the river card, so that leaves the

,

, maybe

and

. hard for him to have a combo draw on this board with the

and

on the board. Maybe

or

. MAYBE

Bet big, long term you will be +EV here, even if you have to fold or call off and lose once in awhile

kbuinowski · Mar 27, 2018

max 6

me i don't care to much for max 6 tables when most of people just sit out and they don't play which to me most of them are bots. i know ACR is trying to take care of the bots which would be nice.

mikeisthebestever · Mar 27, 2018

Standard bet/fold. Bet around 30-40% of the pot and fold to a raise. I feel like he is going to flip over AhJh more than half the time here. What ended up happening?

MattJM68 · Mar 30, 2018

mikeisthebestever said:
Standard bet/fold. Bet around 30-40% of the pot and fold to a raise. I feel like he is going to flip over AhJh more than half the time here. What ended up happening?

He ended up tank calling with AJo with the Ah. Understandable since he had the blocker.

Search

$5 NLHE 6-max: What do I do on this river?

MattJM68

Rock Star

RakeMyLife

Rock Star

MattJM68

Rock Star

DougPkrMonsta

Visionary

RakeMyLife

Rock Star

QA77

Visionary

MattJM68

Rock Star

MattJM68

Rock Star

RakeMyLife

Rock Star

MattJM68

Rock Star

Bozovicdj

Legend

MattJM68

Rock Star

1dkp0k3r

Rock Star

kbuinowski

Rock Star

mikeisthebestever

Rock Star

MattJM68

Rock Star

About CardsChat

Our Community

Our Site

Follow us

Language