$5 NLHE 6-max: What do you think?

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 24/21/10

poker stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $10.77 (215.4 bb)
Hero (BB): $5.17 (103.4 bb)
UTG: $2.03 (40.6 bb)
MP: $0.50 (10 bb)
CO: $5.32 (106.4 bb)
BTN: $5.51 (110.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6 6
4 folds, SB raises to $0.20, Hero calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.40) Q 5 6 (2 players)
SB bets $0.20, Hero calls $0.20

Turn: ($0.80) 7 (2 players)
SB bets $0.65, Hero calls $0.65

River: ($2.10) 7 (2 players)
SB bets $3.10, Hero raises to $4.12 and is all-in, SB calls $1.02

Results: $10.34 pot ($0.43 rake)
Final Board: Q 5 6 7 7


So, is this hand played ok, nok or...?
I'll post results later because a funny thing happened...

I would have 3-bet pre-flop. His range is essentially any two cards when folded to the blinds, and you are way ahead of most hands pre-flop. Also, would be helpful because if he called, you would have some sense that he is probably above a pure bluff, which narrows his range substantially and makes the post-flop thinking easier.

As played, I would have raised post-flop, essentially for the reasons above. He is probably on a c-bet. If he calls your raise, I probably would still have a tough time getting away from my set, but at least I would be thinking about it carefully

The trouble is as played, totally random cards, like 3/4, 8/9, 4/9, Q/7 are still in his range and now you are nervous, even though you have a set.

Ok, I know I did not played this as I should normally do.. I would raise here also, but on occasion just call to mix up my game.
The reason why I called here was: I lost in 4 minutes my AA to KK pf AI, my KK to AA pfAI, AND my QQ On Q flop, rivered by straight.
So I wanted to be carefull and induce a set.

Any other comments before I reveal his hand?
Ps. I have a full house, not a set on the river.. I did put him on suited connectors (low), gutshot straightdraw AND maybe AQ and A7s. Higher PP he would have betted big On flop en turn.

Hmm. Good point about the cards that you actually had Note to self, if you have a set, and the board pairs, now you have a full house!

I think the thought process is still reasonable OTF and on the river.

once you fill the boat on the river, how can you not shove all in?! Only things beating you are 77, QQ, and Q7, 5/7, 6/7. We already ruled out QQ, so really only 4 hands have you beat. Plus, there is tons of stuff he may shove at you that you have beat - two pair and straights.

I hear you about changing play after a series of bad beats/coolers. Not rational, but also not really possible to avoid. I definitely do the same. I think this is a great example of when trying to be safe with moderately strong hands pre-flop actually puts you at risk. If you re-raise pre, or raise OTF, then you would have more info and the hand would be easier to toss or bet in the later rounds.

So, here is the outcome:



Results: $10.34 pot ($0.43 rake)
Final Board: Q 5 6 7 7
SB showed 7 7 and won $9.91 ($4.74 net)
Hero showed 6 6 and lost (-$5.17 net)

This is enough to throw your pc 4 times out of the window after that series of bad beats.........

But.. day after I'm already more confident again and this were just bad beats.. move on.. deal with it

don't 3bet

Wow. That's a stone cold cooler my friend.

Next hand.

Thanks for the replys.. Learning a lot, so every tiny thing helps since I'm On my own.. Don't know any good players in my close area to provide some feedback :/

Owch. Him showing his quads must have hurt your pride momentarily. There are some days where you can't win. After all, luck is an aspect of the game

Not sure whether to reraise him preflop, it all depends on game dynamics.
Raising him on the flop would probably have been a good idea.
but since you didn't reraise on the flop, reraising him on the turn (all in since you would pot commit yourself with a raise) was a must ! you don't know that he has a set of 7s.

but of course that probably wouldn't have changed much, you couldn't get away from that hand no matter what.
postflop you would have lost this hand most likely no matter what you did.
don't feel bad, it's just bad luck.

even if you raised on the flop, I doubt he'd have folded 77.

kazzzman said:

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 24/21/10

Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $10.77 (215.4 bb)
Hero (BB): $5.17 (103.4 bb)
UTG: $2.03 (40.6 bb)
MP: $0.50 (10 bb)
CO: $5.32 (106.4 bb)
BTN: $5.51 (110.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6

6

4 folds, SB raises to $0.20, Hero calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.40) Q

5

6

(2 players)
SB bets $0.20, Hero calls $0.20

Turn: ($0.80) 7

(2 players)
SB bets $0.65, Hero calls $0.65

River: ($2.10) 7

(2 players)
SB bets $3.10, Hero raises to $4.12 and is all-in, SB calls $1.02

Results: $10.34 pot ($0.43 rake)
Final Board: Q

5

6

7

7

So, is this hand played ok, nok or...?
I'll post results later because a funny thing happened...

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Think 3-betting pre is slightly ahead of flatting. Post flop seems fine.

acky100 said:

don't 3bet

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Ditto

youregoodmate said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by acky100
don't 3bet
Ditto

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Disagree.

He raised to 4bb so 3 bet to around 8.5bb or about $.43. If he 4 bets you have an easy fold. Most likely, however, he's going to flat. Now you have position and INITIATIVE! Plus most players at this level are horrid fit/fold panzies in 3bet pots. On that flop, if he leads after cold calling your range, you RAISE and either get it in a huge favorite or he folds and you win a nice pot for 66.

Do not ever, eeeeevvvvvvvveeeeerrrrr underestimate the power of initiative and position when you can generate both.

When I'm thinking over it, I would idd not just check call.. That's for sure..

If this would show up again, I would 3 bet him on the flop, considering my image towards him.
But on the other hand, I don't like what could happen after:

- he could fold, so.. good for me.
- When I 3bet him, it could be he will think I know he would always cbet and thus 4bet me, also with nothing or drawing hands or overpairs.
- I would still have to choose: Call his 4bet: No.. It would be a shove at this point because I would suspect him to test me on the 4bet? Or fold to his 4bet with possible the best hand?

Still not out of this one :/

hutz said:

Disagree.

He raised to 4bb so 3 bet to around 8.5bb or about $.43. If he 4 bets you have an easy fold. Most likely, however, he's going to flat. Now you have position and INITIATIVE! Plus most players at this level are horrid fit/fold panzies in 3bet pots. On that flop, if he leads after cold calling your range, you RAISE and either get it in a huge favorite or he folds and you win a nice pot for 66.

Do not ever, eeeeevvvvvvvveeeeerrrrr underestimate the power of initiative and position when you can generate both.

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3betting preflop will show an immediate profit. Flatting will show an implied profit. Depending on the player, one might show more of a profit than the other. Despite that, generally speaking, we never want to 3bet a small pair in position against a player like this.

What do you do with 53s here preflop? 9Ts? AJ? 97o?

ChuckTs said:

1. Flatting will show an implied profit.

2. What do you do with 53s here preflop? 9Ts? AJ? 97o?

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1.You assume he will always pay you off when you hit a set. But if you don't hit that set, how often are you really happy with the flop? No set, no bet? BvB? Weak sauce. 3bet, narrow his range if he's continuing, gain the initiative and put him in spots where he's not comfortable. Most players at 5NL are not comfortable at all in 3bet pots (which I've already stated). Then again, maybe op isn't really comfortable in 3bet pots either.

2. Honestly it really doesn't matter what hand you're 3betting BvB. If he is incapable of 4 betting other than top 4% of hands -- which damn near all 5NL players are -- the hands virtually play themselves. If villain hit, he continues. If not, he folds. The question becomes how much pressure can he stand. You'd like to think that players at this level think about how you perceive their range. They don't. They think, well that's a dry flop. I bet/raise. Or they think, sweet, I've got TPTK, I bet/raise (whatever).

Honestly, put yourself in villain's shoes when you hold 77, you've been 3bet, you're OOP and you've faced a flop bet on the Q462 board (assume he didn't his the turn 7), and now you're facing a large turn bet. What would you do?

As played I would raise his Cbet to about .60, maybe even a bit more if you wanted. He'll likely fold with 77. I can't imagine a player with those stats calling it. If he does and the 7 comes on the turn then that is just a bad beat and you move on to the next hand.

I flat pre, don't like 3betting at all.

I raise this flop. At higher stakes I may flat this for balancing reasons but 5NL I'm happy to raise so we can eventually get stacks in vs Jx QQ+ and charge 78 here and now.

River I play the same, consider yourself coolered.

Interesting discussions going On.
I can find myself in the theory of hutz, but at the 5NL tables it is not so easy to get someone to fold his PP, even with overcards. They see idd:
I hit, go for it..
I didn't hit, but have pair and he is bluffing and still can hit. This is most of the time good but.. Dangerous too.

Yesterday I closed a 2h session with ABC poker and with most of the time a plan.
Also, it is very hard On those tables to present anything.. They dont put you on a range. You just need to play against a nit, a lag and a tag. And according to that style I make my bets now.
I Finished after 400 hands with +29$ profit which is good for me. Made correct easy decissions AND not intimidated by multiple foldings or bad beats.

3-bet pre, you are well ahead of his range most times i would say hes attacking your big, and would fold 9/10 if you 3-bet.

3betting pre feels like turning 66 into a bluff here. High FT3B% is an argument for flatting, not 3betting.

I like flat pre, raise flop or at least turn.

hutz said:

He raised to 4bb so 3 bet to around 8.5bb or about $.43. If he 4 bets you have an easy fold. Most likely, however, he's going to flat.

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When you raise this small you're hoping for a fold, not a flat - villain plays his hand perfectly when he calls your minraise, no matter what he's holding. Unless villain doesn't understand the pot odds you've given him and folds a chunk of his range here, you have to 3bet bigger.

kazzzman said:

- I would still have to choose: Call his 4bet: No.. It would be a shove at this point because I would suspect him to test me on the 4bet? Or fold to his 4bet with possible the best hand?

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Don't fold sets on this flop. Folding sets in general is bad because even on str8/flush boards you have redraws. Just ship.

Standard. Unlucky.

In order of hand strength.
3bet (value) > flat > 3bet bluff > fold.

Yes against someone with a high F3b we can 3bet any 2 cards and see a profit but I don't do that and im very confident none of the 3betting advocates itt do either. 3betting 100% of hands here would cause even the dopiest of players to adjust so we flat the hands like 66 kt A5s with position and outplay our opponent postflop. We even fold some hands like 72o that in the short run will have made a profitable 3bet.

Lucothefish said:

When you raise this small you're hoping for a fold

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I'm not sure where you got that I was hoping for a fold. That's not the point at all. If villain folds, fine. If he calls, fine. If he 4bets, fine. 3betting this small allows me to lose less money the times that he does 4bet. I would make it the same size with AA. Also, it makes my standard cbet of (pick a percentage of pot) smaller. Remember, too, that this is a three street game. There will be plenty of boards that are conducive to triple barreling even when you've hit none of it. Those are almost always set up by a preflop 3bet.

hutz said:

I'm not sure where you got that I was hoping for a fold.

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I got it from the fundamental theory of poker.