$5 NLHE 6-max: Turned straight vs rivered full house

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LeGenie

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Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 25/19/0.3

Hi everyone just need some feedback on a hand that I recently played.

P1(MP) $3.81 - VP:20 PFR:0 AF:Inf. W:0| STL:|100 3B:0| CB:|100 N:-0.19 hands:10
Me(BTN) $6.30 - VP:26 PFR:11 AF:2.3 W:75|67 STL:50|50 3B:0| CB:100|33 N:-3.68 Hands:19
P3(SB) $8.86 - VP:25 PFR:19 AF:0.3 W:100|100 STL:0|100 3B:11|100 CB:0|0 N:8.60 Hands:16
P4(BB) $7.54 - VP:19 PFR:5 AF:0.3 W:33|100 STL:0| 3B:10|100 CB:|0 N:2.61 Hands:21
P5(MP) $7.29 - VP:48 PFR:0 AF:0.3 W:22|100 STL:0| 3B:0|50 CB:|60 N:-0.85 Hands:21


Pre Flop: Me(BTN) with A:diamond: Q:spade:
P5(MP) calls 0.05, P1(MP) folds, Me(BTN) raises 0.22, P3(SB) calls 0.20, P4(BB) folds, P5(MP) calls 0.17


Flop: J:diamond: T:heart: A:spade: (3 players)
P3(SB) checks, P5(MP) checks, Me(BTN) bets 0.35, P3(SB) calls 0.35, P5(MP) folds


Turn: K:heart: (2 players)
P3(SB) checks, Me(BTN) bets 1.41, P3(SB) calls 1.41


River: K:diamond: (2 players)
P3(SB) checks, Me(BTN) bets 3, P3(SB) calls 3


Final:
P3(SB) shows J:spade: J:club:
P3(SB) wins 9.72
 
N

nuts30

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SB is solid player. check turn and river. river only check
 
bgomez89

bgomez89

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Why would you bet the river?
 
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LeGenie

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Why would you bet the river?

The river was a value bet. I put him on 2 pair or a straight for a split pot. Are you saying that I should have slowed down when the K paired on the river?
 
ElmarLCH

ElmarLCH

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Considering he has AF 0.3, you should figure out that he has something after calling down 2 barrels. Just check the river, because you won't get called by hands that don't beat yours. It is a way to scary board for someone to call a third bet with only 2 pair? Besides that, why would you even consider to put more money in the pot when you think it is a split pot? Just give the cardroom some extra rake?

Conclusion: There is no reason for betting the river if you suspect it to be a split pot and he is never calling down that much (like 60% of his stack) with two pair on this board. You played it well, but the river bet was useless.
 
bgomez89

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The river was a value bet. I put him on 2 pair or a straight for a split pot. Are you saying that I should have slowed down when the K paired on the river?

No one is ever going to call a $3 bet on that river with a measly two pair, ever. Unless the person has severe mental issues, it won't happen.

Why would you bet if you think the pot will just be split? You know that it just ends losing both you and the other player money because the rake takes a % of what you both split...
 
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LeGenie

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Considering he has AF 0.3, you should figure out that he has something after calling down 2 barrels. Just check the river, because you won't get called by hands that don't beat yours. It is a way to scary board for someone to call a third bet with only 2 pair? Besides that, why would you even consider to put more money in the pot when you think it is a split pot? Just give the cardroom some extra rake?

Conclusion: There is no reason for betting the river if you suspect it to be a split pot and he is never calling down that much (like 60% of his stack) with two pair on this board. You played it well, but the river bet was useless.

Thanks for the insight. Should have just checked the river...
 
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LeGenie

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No one is ever going to call a $3 bet on that river with a measly two pair, ever. Unless the person has severe mental issues, it won't happen.

Why would you bet if you think the pot will just be split? You know that it just ends losing both you and the other player money because the rake takes a % of what you both split...

However don't you think that he should have folded to my bet on the turn considering there was a straight possibility on the board??
 
bgomez89

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I don't know, I wouldn't have known what he had during that time. Plus some people aren't logical.
 
Aces2w1n

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Well soon as the 2nd K came out you didn't have the nuts and would only get called by the nuts,


Only get called if the guy had Mental issues made me laugh.. Tilt is the other word that may be useful here.
 
ElmarLCH

ElmarLCH

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Thanks for the insight. Should have just checked the river...
Yeah it's sometimes hard to take your losses if you still have a chance of winning (he could still fold or even call with 2 pair). Just try to take your time at (big) decisions like this.
 
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Are you tracking the players on Bovada by manually entering info into excel?
 
RodneyC86

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When posting a hand try to avoid titles that give away the outcome and certainly do not post results. Post the result after analysis have been done satisfactorily. Hope this helps

Anyway yeah, dick move of a river bet mostly, w're you thinking about getting a queen to fold by ripping a full house? Even so, that ain't too smart against AF 0.3 who will call down with any Q anyway.

Our hand pretty much obtained bluff catcher status I think.
 
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LeGenie

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Are you tracking the players on Bovada by manually entering info into excel?

No I am using Holdem Indicator, which is the only poker tracking software allowed on bovada at the moment.
 
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LeGenie

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When posting a hand try to avoid titles that give away the outcome and certainly do not post results. Post the result after analysis have been done satisfactorily. Hope this helps

Anyway yeah, dick move of a river bet mostly, w're you thinking about getting a queen to fold by ripping a full house? Even so, that ain't too smart against AF 0.3 who will call down with any Q anyway.

Our hand pretty much obtained bluff catcher status I think.

When you look at AF of 0.3 do you assume that he is a passive player who just calls down what he thinks is the best hand or a someone who only calls down three streets of betting with the nuts?
 
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LeGenie

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Yeah it's sometimes hard to take your losses if you still have a chance of winning (he could still fold or even call with 2 pair). Just try to take your time at (big) decisions like this.

When you mentioned earlier the player's AF of 0.3 do you assume that he is a passive player who just calls down what he thinks is the best hand or a someone who only calls down three streets of betting with the nuts?
 
RodneyC86

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When you look at AF of 0.3 do you assume that he is a passive player who just calls down what he thinks is the best hand or a someone who only calls down three streets of betting with the nuts?

Why not both? But seriously, with that sample size, it can be misleading. Still seeing an AF 0.3, you're better off assuming he's a passive fish if you've got no other reads to lean on.
 
ElmarLCH

ElmarLCH

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When you mentioned earlier the player's AF of 0.3 do you assume that he is a passive player who just calls down what he thinks is the best hand or a someone who only calls down three streets of betting with the nuts?

I think both. He is just a player that slowplays every big hand (because fish think that is the best way of doing it). If he really had the nuts he might push out a reraise on the river or a bet on the river (if it's checked down until the river).
That's why he only has 0.3 AF. I even believe he only pushes out a reraise with the nuts on a wet board, but otherwise he just calls it. That is just the way these fish thinks. The best way to do beat them is to bet big on your good hands and try to avoid situations like this.

*EDIT*:
Just another point why this river bet is so important. You invested like 2 dollar in this hand and on the river you bet 3.
Instead of losing 2, you lose 5. That's a huge difference.
 
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