$5 NLHE 6-max: Trips oop facing river snap shove, line check

B

Beasty2k

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How would you play this hand? No stats on villain. Tough spot and tried to get to cheap showdown, hence calling flop/turn.

Do we bet flop? Lead turn? C/r anywhere? Bit lost here.

Most interested in river - attempted blocking bet but got snap raised AI, clear fold as played?




Table Information
Seat: 1 Player 1 ($5.43) Dealer
Seat: 2 Hero ($5.02) Small Blind
Seat: 3 Player 3 ($10.56) Big Blind
Seat: 4 Player 4 ($5.93)
Seat: 5 Player 5 ($5.2)
Seat: 6 Player 6 ($5)
Dealt to Hero
TS.png
JS.png


Preflop (Pot:0.07)
4 folds
Hero RAISE $0.15
Player 3 CALL $0.1

Flop(Pot: $0.32)
TD.png
QS.png
4H.png

Hero CHECK
Player 3 BET $0.2
Hero CALL $0.2

Turn(Pot: $0.72)
TD.png
QS.png
4H.png
TC.png

Hero CHECK
Player 3 BET $1
Hero CALL $1

River(Pot: $2.72)
TD.png
QS.png
4H.png
TC.png
3C.png

Hero BET $1.25
Player 3 RAISE $6
Hero FOLD
 
J

jackaoliver

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I would be calling river in the end. his over bet on the turn is confusing. But then lets think if he had a set and then made hiss full house, why would you overbet the pot. What hands are you getting to call, a Qx hand is going to fold . Maybe KJ plays this way, trys to overbet to get a fold on turn andd then jams when he misses on river. Hard hero call but i cant believe any person with a brain would play a boat like this.
 
Beanfacekilla

Beanfacekilla

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It looks like this hand was blind vs. blind.

You raise with jack high (suited). Then, you catch a piece of the flop, and check, handing the keys to villain.

Now, you turn trips, and check again....

Villain just puts the pressure on, and you fold the river.

Now I ask you...
What are you hoping will happen when you raise blind vs. blind? Do you need quads to call this bet?

I absolutely think villain punked you here. You had the best hand. I don't know why you would play the hand so passively...

It really seems like you need some work on your HU game. For now, I would just fold the SB with speculative hands. Don't get yourself into tough spots.

You should have bet the flop, bet the turn, and bet the river. On turn, I would have called any raise villain makes.

I mean no disrespect here. I am just giving you my honest opinion.

There is no way in the world villain had you beat here. He was trying to make you fold. He succeeded. There is NO WAY villain has a better hand than you. He would never try and push you out of the hand with a boat, or better trips.

1% chance I am wrong. I would bet alot though that you had villain crushed.
 
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Beasty2k

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Thanks for the input guys! I do need to work on my HU game but that goes for anyone oop I guess. I am struggling with steal play.

Reason I played JTs in the first place in SB is for a steal with decent flopability. Getting called and hitting mid pair decent kicker puts me in an awkward spot oop.

I checked flop with the intention of calling, as he takes a stab here a lot and may check back turn for pot control or giving up, which is what I hoped for.

Can we agree that villain's all bets were for value? Certainly felt like it. And the river snap-push definitely was. I don't think he is trying to push me off the hand.

Why would he push river without the nuts? Especially since he knows I called both flop & turn, and may label me as a station. He is IP and could safely just call a smallish bet with KQ, strangely played AQ. I think he has a T (better or worse than mine, AT definitely in his range) or more likely, a boat.

Would love to hear more input on the river play.
 
Beanfacekilla

Beanfacekilla

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He bets so big on the river because he can't win at showdown.

He is trying to make you fold. You handed him the keys on the flop by checking. He just picked them up, and ran with it. You showed weakness.

I suspect he has some K-J/J-9, perhaps a PP 99 or less. Maybe a queen with a shitty kicker.

I play alot of poker. I absoultely think you had villain beat here.

Why on earth would anyone with a boat play so aggressively? People that have boats want you to CALL, not fold. People with the nuts will RARELY overbet like this. They want a call. They will try to be sneaky.

Inexperienced players often act strong when weak, and weak when strong.

Trust me.

The passive line you took with this hand screams weakness. Villain just pushed you until you folded.

It is much more likely that villain bluffed. I just don't believe villain had you beat.

It is just one buy-in. Don't play scared. You had a pretty strong hand. Villain's line screams FOS to me.

This is just my opinion, take it or leave it.


Edit: Not trying to sound arrogant or know-it-all-ish. I just really believe what I am saying is correct. I mean all due respect.
 
B

Beasty2k

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He bets so big on the river because he can't win at showdown.

He is trying to make you fold. You handed him the keys on the flop by checking. He just picked them up, and ran with it. You showed weakness.

I suspect he has some K-J/J-9, perhaps a PP 99 or less. Maybe a queen with a shitty kicker.

I play alot of poker. I absoultely think you had villain beat here.

Why on earth would anyone with a boat play so aggressively? People that have boats want you to CALL, not fold. People with the nuts will RARELY overbet like this. They want a call. They will try to be sneaky.

Inexperienced players often act strong when weak, and weak when strong.

Trust me.

The passive line you took with this hand screams weakness. Villain just pushed you until you folded.

It is much more likely that villain bluffed. I just don't believe villain had you beat.

It is just one buy-in. Don't play scared. You had a pretty strong hand. Villain's line screams FOS to me.

This is just my opinion, take it or leave it.


Edit: Not trying to sound arrogant or know-it-all-ish. I just really believe what I am saying is correct. I mean all due respect.

Appreciate the input, thanks!

What if villain had not overbet, i.e. half to 3/4 pot on turn, and same on river? Does this change things?

I did not read much into the bet sizing to be honest, a river jam is all that's left after my bet so I don't see how this is an overbet.
 
Beanfacekilla

Beanfacekilla

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Appreciate the input, thanks!

What if villain had not overbet, i.e. half to 3/4 pot on turn, and same on river? Does this change things?

I did not read much into the bet sizing to be honest, a river jam is all that's left after my bet so I don't see how this is an overbet.

Think of it like this...

If you raise preflop, you are showing initiative. You need to continue with the aggression, expecially OOP. Everything gets out of whack otherwise. You have no idea where you are in the hand, etc.

If you are the one applying the pressure, it is easier to get reads, ranges, etc.

If you check, he is probably just going to bet and see if he can steal it.

Now, if you bet, and he raises you..... Maybe he has a big queen, a set, two pair, a big draw, etc. If he just calls, fire again on turn.

But by checking the flop and turn, you have basically surrendered the hand. You are giving the upper hand to villain.

If you are going to raise blind vs. blind, have the guts to see it through. Don't let anyone run you over.

And if he bet 3/4 pot or around that, it would be a little more standard I guess. But you are the raiser, do not give him that opportunity.

Taking such a passive line, you are putting yourself in a really tough spot. He has you on the ropes, and you are the one facing the tough decisions now. Make HIM make tough decisions. Put the pressure on HIM. You flopped a decent hand, and turned an even better hand. Very unlikely villain has you beat here.

You showed weakness on the flop and turn, and then you tried to bet the river. It was too late by then. Villain could have Q-x, and honestly think he has the best hand at this point. But I don't even think villain had Q-x.... I think he had an even weaker hand than that.
 
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Beasty2k

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I am still not convinced I should bet this flop. He probably thinks I can steal with ATC and takes a stab/bluff himself when I check => I get more value for my pair. A flop bet just folds out his air and keeps hands that beat us, and creating a bigger pot oop with mid pair. And if he floats us here, basically any card is a scare-card for us.

If it wasn't a blind vs blind situation, I would have bet the flop and continued on turn. Because this is blind vs blind, I think ranges apply less.

Overall I was just trying to keep the pot small, and I failed and folded. Pot controlling oop is impossible. :)
 
Beanfacekilla

Beanfacekilla

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I am still not convinced I should bet this flop. He probably thinks I can steal with ATC and takes a stab/bluff himself when I check => I get more value for my pair. A flop bet just folds out his air and keeps hands that beat us, and creating a bigger pot oop with mid pair. And if he floats us here, basically any card is a scare-card for us.

If it wasn't a blind vs blind situation, I would have bet the flop and continued on turn. Because this is blind vs blind, I think ranges apply less.

Overall I was just trying to keep the pot small, and I failed and folded. Pot controlling oop is impossible. :)

If you don't think you can bet this flop, why would you raise blind vs. blind??

Why start an aggressive line, but just surrender to villain? Pot control? But you raise preflop? I don't understand. Were you just trying to steal the BB? If so, I believe that is a foolish waste of money....

After all, it is only my opinion. But if you play so passive like this, people are going to run you over every chance they get.
 
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Beasty2k

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If you don't think you can bet this flop, why would you raise blind vs. blind??

Why start an aggressive line, but just surrender to villain? Pot control? But you raise preflop? I don't understand. Were you just trying to steal the BB? If so, I believe that is a foolish waste of money....

After all, it is only my opinion. But if you play so passive like this, people are going to run you over every chance they get.
I have started to be more selective with cbets overall, as standard line oop often is cbet flop, c/f turn (which would have been the case if I had bet flop and checked any non-T or J turn).

Yes, I was trying to steal the BB with a hand that can flop well in case called. When I hit middle pair, I try to pot control to get to a cheap showdown with my small but obvious showdown value.

I agree that the line indeed is very passive, but like I said I don't normally play this way. This was situational, as it was blind vs blind (weird actual ranges and perceived ranges), against an apparently very aggressive opponent.
 
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micromoi

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noway i will find a fold here, the only two hands he could have that got me beat here are 44 or Q10, if had one of those good for him if not good for me so i call.
 
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