$5 NLHE 6-max: Struggling to get a read after a large 3 bet

GreenDaddy1

GreenDaddy1

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6 Max Fast Forward on party poker.


Folds to hero on the button with AQo. Raise 0.12c.

Villain (115BB) in BB 3 bets 0.50c. Hero (220 BB) 4 bets $1.15. Villain calls.
Pot $2.32

FLOP: 9d Kh Ad

Villain Check. Hero Check.

TURN: 8s

Villain bet 0.52c. Hero Calls.
Pot $3.36

RIVER: 5s

Villain bet $2.40. Hero Calls.

(Result withheld until discussion)



My line comes across pretty passive here, but it was not without thought.

Had noticed this player 3 betting from BB a couple of times at this size already, stood out as being an overly aggressive defense compared to general population. No other reads. We're on Party Poker playing Fast Forward, no stats.

4 bet on the button here is standard for me in this spot, as part of a range with both value and bluffs.

Flop was a bit scary despite getting a piece of it. Ruling out AA, KK also unlikely, both would have shipped it against my 4 bet I supposed. Working to putting villain on a range, figure they might call the 4 bet with something like AK, AQ, AJ QQ, JJ, maybe incorrectly call some other weak broadway hands, possibly higher suited connectors, maybe some Axs hands. Hard to pin ranges down at these stakes, fluctuates wildly between uber nits and agro donkeys. That large 3 bet is sticking in my mind though, it seems more likely this player is fishy and loose rather than a reg. Anyway, I decided to check flop with the pot so big already, as this seemed the sort of situation that might get out of hand if the pot grew on all three streets.

The small turn bet from villain seemed an easy call at that price. Found it difficult to read the intent here though. Feel most A or K that made a pair would have bet more for value, unless the kicker was weak. There are some draws available, so at this point leaning towards them having a piece of one of those. Could they get this far with 99 or 88? Maybe, but again it does not seem like a value bet. I didn’t really consider a check raise, again mostly for fear of bloating the pot and being drastically wrong on my read. If I’m putting villain on a draw here should I go for the check raise and charge them to see another card? Or is the more restrained approach better in this case, just trying to get to a cheap showdown with my top pair good kicker?

The 5s on the river looks like a complete miss to me. Flush draw doesn’t come in. A 67 hand would have completed a straight but I find that a very unlikely hand for villain to have. 55 pretty unlikely and such a small part of a range that gets here, surely I can’t fear that. I’m leaning towards a fishy bluff after a busted draw given how passive I have been, but there is always the chance villain slow played something and I’ve completely misread it. I’m nervous about it, but I call, unable to credit this villain for a better hand than me given the action.

Maybe reading a bit much into a .02/.05 hand played at 1:30am on a Sunday night lol. Thought it an interesting hand to look at anyway.
 
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greatgame230

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the reading of this hand is made difficult by the check on the flop from there all the difficulty, as you say there is no reason to think of a KK or AA by the villain because he had made another raise to your 4 bet, when checking after the flop it is very difficult to know what the villain can have, but even worse is the call on the turn at that moment you are giving the impression that you are the one with a low kicker, I would have tried to take the pot at that time because I think he has Ax and no better than AQ. As I always say, I do not try to say that what I just wrote is the right thing, I just write what I would have done.
 
GreenDaddy1

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Yeah fair points. I've been getting myself into a bit of a mess post flop and really need to go back to basics and stop second guessing myself so much. Lost confidence in my play post flop, feeling like I am struggling to get value often, and then on the flip side I am too often calling down too light or failing to give villains credit when they are clearly representing something strong due to having some piece of it myself, and losing some big pots that have me kicking myself afterwards.
Probably need to break out the Grinder's Manual or some Blackrain79 content and just start my post flop strategy from scratch.
 
PaxMundi

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You say 4betting AQo is standard for you as part of value/bluff but was this for value or a bluff ?. It's not a hand i would use as a bluff here so i would flat pre but if your intention is to 4bet/call then fair enugh. Postflop i think is ok although i would cbet like 1/3p.
 
GreenDaddy1

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You say 4betting AQo is standard for you as part of value/bluff but was this for value or a bluff ?. It's not a hand i would use as a bluff here so i would flat pre but if your intention is to 4bet/call then fair enugh. Postflop i think is ok although i would cbet like 1/3p.

For value, at the lower end of my value 4 bets. I look to much weaker hands with good post flop playability and maybe a blocker for the bluffs, eg A5s would be part of my bluff range. This is a pretty new addition to my game, but I've read up on it a bit and am happy with the results so far.

Yes 1/3 would look about right to me in that spot if I was c betting. In another state of mind I might have done exactly that. I tend to bet about 33% in 3 or 4 bet pots when c betting unless some reason to really press for value strikes me.
 
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quant1986

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I think 4bet calling range is still generally uncapped as villain may not choose to 5bet with KK+, I doubt villian would bet AQ, AJ, KQ for 2 streets and overall bet sizing looks very much like AK to me.

Is villain capable of bluffing with TT/JJ on this board? If yes then river could be a call.

On this flop, I think check behind or betting 25%-33% pot is fine.
 
F

fundiver199

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I think, if you are going to 4-bet AQo, there is pretty much no way to get away postflop, when you hit this kind of board. You could go for a small bet like 1/4 pot on the flop, but checking back is completely fine as well. And as played just call him down. I do think, 4-betting AQo is very aggressive though. I dont mind mixing it in from time to time, but I would mainly call here and keep his range wider.
 
Alucard

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this seems fine for me
we can't really fold on river but not exactly happy tho. But I'm defo bluff catching
 
GreenDaddy1

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Thanks all.

Villain showed up with Td 7d here.
 
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