$5 NLHE 6-max: Should I have shoved or not

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I’m short stacked with 70BB villain has double my stack
I open UTG with AKo to 3xBB (0.15c)
Folds to button who 3 bets to 70c
I 4bet shove $3.50 and villain calls with JJ
board runs out 85QT6

This was my train of thought:
Button 3bet range is quite large and at these stakes people tend to hold onto mid/high PP so I put him on 99+
Because I’m short stacked I either 4bet shove or fold so I shove.
Is this an appropriate way to play that hand ??
 
TheDude6622

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This is a classic case of AK not being the nuts pre-flop. You were up against the hand you wanted to be up against and just didn't hit your card. In a tournament I would have seen a flop, especially with that many BB. In a cash game, when someone 3-bets me and I have AK, I would either call or fold. They are polarizing their hand to the strongest or nothing.
 
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Which Format is this and why you consider 70bigs as short stacked is AK weak to 4 bet or or weak to call for flop at least. Technically if it's a tourney it's always bad to shove into Bigger stacks and the way you played is enough good for that kind of flips.
 
jadaminato

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70BB is not short.
 
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StepUp said:
Which Format is this and why you consider 70bigs as short stacked is AK weak to 4 bet or or weak to call for flop at least. Technically if it's a tourney it's always bad to shove into Bigger stacks and the way you played is enough good for that kind of flips.
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It was 5NL online cash game 6max, I thought I was reasonably short stacked against my opponents stack and if I call and miss the flop I’ll be down to roughly 55bb then I’ll have to check fold cause he will cbet almost always so i can try take the pot down pre flop and if he calls I have decent equity,
 
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TheDude6622 said:
This is a classic case of AK not being the nuts pre-flop. You were up against the hand you wanted to be up against and just didn't hit your card. In a tournament I would have seen a flop, especially with that many BB. In a cash game, when someone 3-bets me and I have AK, I would either call or fold. They are polarizing their hand to the strongest or nothing.
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Yea I think I could have called and seen the flop I may have been too aggressive but at the same time, I thought that I could try take the pot pre flop and still have decent equity if villain calls
 
Edgerik

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From experience AKo is not a hand to go or pay allin, I prefer to see the flop and make a decision especially in cash.
 
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Edgerik said:
From experience AKo is not a hand to go or pay allin, I prefer to see the flop and make a decision especially in cash.[/QUOTE


Yea AKo is a difficult hand for me to play right
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FF2586

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If you are looking for a variety of point of views, let me contribute with mine :

1st : I wouldn't let myself start a hand with 70BB in a cash game, 100BB min
2nd : still with 70BB effective I wouldn't shove AKo unless I was balancing or knew vilain 3bets wider than average
3rd : every hand is an experience you learn from

gl
 
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FF2586 said:
If you are looking for a variety of point of views, let me contribute with mine :

1st : I wouldn't let myself start a hand with 70BB in a cash game, 100BB min
2nd : still with 70BB effective I wouldn't shove AKo unless I was balancing or knew vilain 3bets wider than average
3rd : every hand is an experience you learn from

gl
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Yea I agree, ignition doesn’t have auto refill option so I gotta add chips every hand which is annoying but yes good point I think I will call next time haha
 
liuouhgkres

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AKo is easy shove against BTN 3bet even if you were 100bb deep.
 
moulan7

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Yeah me too I shove AK here (I don't know about 4bets, I raise, 3bet, shove lol).
The reason is that I want to see every street and I don't want to get in a tough spot if we miss the flop after we call a 3bet.
We also flipping against any pair, we dominate any Ace and we block AA/KK.
Sooo gl xD.
 
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moulan7 said:
Yeah me too I shove AK here (I don't know about 4bets, I raise, 3bet, shove lol).
The reason is that I want to see every street and I don't want to get in a tough spot if we miss the flop after we call a 3bet.
We also flipping against any pair, we dominate any Ace and we block AA/KK.
Sooo gl xD.
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Agreed that’s the way I thought about it XD!!
 
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Your stack was to short to make a normal 4-bet, especially because his 3-bet was oversized, so I dont like that option. I also dont like calling out of position. Pot will be 1,4$, you will have 2,8$ left behind. This will be pretty awkward, when you miss the flop, which you will 2/3 of the time.

With those two options ruled out, only options left are fold or jam. So the question is, is jamming +EV? And this is honestly a little bit Villain dependent. What does that oversized 3-bet mean? If its only aces or kings, you are obviously smoked. But if its wider, then things are beginning to look much better, because you either have fold equity or more equity when called.
 
JBGoode

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Conorsr said:
I’m short stacked with 70BB villain has double my stack
I open UTG with AKo to 3xBB (0.15c)
Folds to button who 3 bets to 70c
I 4bet shove $3.50 and villain calls with JJ
board runs out 85QT6

This was my train of thought:
Button 3bet range is quite large and at these stakes people tend to hold onto mid/high PP so I put him on 99+
Because I’m short stacked I either 4bet shove or fold so I shove.
Is this an appropriate way to play that hand ??
Click to expand...
70BBs isnt really short, now with such a large 3Bet we really dont have room to 4Bet fold....

I dont hate the mindset of jam or fold, and I also agree we shouldnt be open calling 3Best Out of position, but I still keep it old school and leave AK in the 3Bet Call Out of position range. (A range that is super thin, and I dont do very often)....

I see it like this, if we flat the 70, and we check, and Vil over jams we can just get away, or even bets over 60% pot we can get away. Yea they pull 2 street of value with anything less then that cause we are folding to a smaller flop bet, but at least we dont lose our entire stack.

Also if flop goes check, check, we have the option to bluff at this point to take it down, or check call to get to the river.
 
Tunkki

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70BB deep AKo is quite easy to play. You played that correctly.
 
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JBGoode said:
I dont hate the mindset of jam or fold, and I also agree we shouldnt be open calling 3Best Out of position
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Its fine to call a 3-bet out of position, but AK often play better with aggression, and in this particular spot the 3-bet was very large, which makes calling less attractive. If I am facing a min 3-bet, I pretty much call with my entire range, because I am getting the right odds. But when he makes it almost 5 times the original raise, odds are very bad, and against some players I would just fold AK here, if I thought, that they are just never bluffing with that sizing.
 
JBGoode

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fundiver199 said:
Its fine to call a 3-bet out of position, but AK often play better with aggression, and in this particular spot the 3-bet was very large, which makes calling less attractive. If I am facing a min 3-bet, I pretty much call with my entire range, because I am getting the right odds. But when he makes it almost 5 times the original raise, odds are very bad, and against some players I would just fold AK here, if I thought, that they are just never bluffing with that sizing.
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I think we should be looking at sizing the exsact opposite, if it's big we need to be flatting wider, if its larger we need to be betting wider....

Yea I know the arguement that a smaller 3Bet size means strength, but with Recs it's actually fear, not strength....

If they have the goods we are gonna know when they 5Bet us....
 
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