$5 NLHE 6-max: Rush NL5 BTN KQs vs SB 3-bet

alipalip

alipalip

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 1, 2015
Total posts
244
Chips
0
Hi all.
My question:
was the flop call is a good idea? or rise/broke?
Turn borke was because i don`t think that he hav AT.
Against the range: AA, KK, QQ , AK i got realy good equity. What is your opinion?

Full Tilt - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 40 BB (VPIP: 46.15, PFR: 21.37, 3Bet Preflop: 4.76, hands: 119)
UTG: 38 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
MP: 73.2 BB (VPIP: 85.71, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
CO: 121 BB (VPIP: 25.26, PFR: 9.47, 3Bet Preflop: 2.78, Hands: 98)
Hero (BTN): 156.8 BB
SB: 239.2 BB (VPIP: 21.43, PFR: 19.64, 3Bet Preflop: 8.77, Hands: 172)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Q:spade: K:spade:

UTG calls 1 BB, fold, CO calls 1 BB, Hero raises to 6 BB, SB raises to 19 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 13 BB

Flop: (41 BB, 2 players) 3:heart: Q:club: K:heart:
SB bets 22 BB, Hero calls 22 BB

Turn: (85 BB, 2 players) J:spade:
SB bets 138.4 BB, Hero calls 115.8 BB and is all-in

River: (316.6 BB, 2 players) 3:spade:

SB shows K:club: K:diamond: (Full House, Kings full of Threes)
(Pre 86%, Flop 99.9%, Turn 100%)
Hero shows Q:spade: K:spade: (Two Pair, Kings and Queens)
(Pre 14%, Flop 0.1%, Turn 0%)
SB wins 298 BB
 
6

6bet me

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 13, 2015
Total posts
835
Chips
0
Usually I'd say that the preflop call was too loose (QKs isn't usually worth 19bb), but in this particular case, we have position, we're closing the action, we're against a player who 3bets almost 9% of the time and our button raise could appear like a weak isolation bet in response to the limpers (ie. the villain doesn't need to respect our raise here, so he might 3bet us lightly). So preflop is fine.

The flop you definitely should've raised. You want to get value off AK, AA and AQ hands. It's even possible the villain has a hand as weak as AT, JT or AJ and is C-betting the flop on a semi-bluff. You want to protect yourself from these kind of hands.

The turn, as played, is a fold. As sick as this is, there aren't many worse hands here that the villain is overbet shoving (perhaps JT, KT, KJ or AA, and even those hands have a lot of equity against us). I would never expect the villain to overbet shove AK here.
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Total posts
5,781
Chips
0
I was expecting aa tbh which wouldve rivered us.. since we block sets we assume we r good
 
M

MinhANguyen

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Total posts
695
Chips
0
Fold pre. We are dominated here a lot of the time and have RIO. When we make it 6x, it's unlikely he's messing around with a light 3-bet OOP and against another deep stack. Also, due to domination, he's blocking a lot of our straight draw combos. So just fold pre.

Turn is probably a fold. He's not doing this with any hand you beat. You do have good equity against AA/AK/KK/QQ/JJ, but AK/AA are most likely checking OTT and possibly check-folding OTT or OTR. They should be check-folding OTT, but people might get sticky here. He's definitely shipping all his sets before a river card kills his action. Against KK/QQ/JJ you have bad equity and are in terrible shape.
 
Last edited:
Thinker_145

Thinker_145

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Total posts
848
Awards
1
Chips
1
Fold pre like really end of story in my opinion. We don't have enough sample on the Villain to know how squeeze happy he is, right now he just seems to be a very solid aggressive player and you should choose a better spot than this. You made a big 2 bet to a bunch of limpers and then when he comes over the top with a huge 3 bet its over. Highly unlikely people are messing around in a situation like this.

Obviously after the flop this is a cooler hand and you cannot possibly fold after making that call pre.
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Total posts
5,781
Chips
0
So we just ignore its a steal attempt?
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
Calling here is pretty standard with our opponent 3-betting 10% or higher with position. 172 is plenty of hands to make this judgement.

Cooler bro.
 
Thinker_145

Thinker_145

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Total posts
848
Awards
1
Chips
1
So we just ignore its a steal attempt?
But it is usually not a steal attempt is my point. Situations like these are the reason lags build their image for.
 
Thinker_145

Thinker_145

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Total posts
848
Awards
1
Chips
1
Calling here is pretty standard with our opponent 3-betting 10% or higher with position. 172 is plenty of hands to make this judgement.

Cooler bro.
A 3 bet that follows a large 2 bet which followed a bunch of limpers is a pretty different beast than a standard 3 bet. Don't know why people are just looking at the percentage and calling it a day.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
A 3 bet that follows a large 2 bet which followed a bunch of limpers is a pretty different beast than a standard 3 bet. Don't know why people are just looking at the percentage and calling it a day.
Yeah, you have more fold equity because there's more dead money?

When the open comes from the button the general rule of thumb is multiply their 3-bet percentage times 1.4. So 8.5*1.4=11.9%

KQ looks pretty good against that range, and has enough equity to see a flop with position.
 
Thinker_145

Thinker_145

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Total posts
848
Awards
1
Chips
1
No it means there is a potentially stronger hand to deal with so stealing is more difficult. My argument is based entirely on my experience and in any case it's better to make small mistakes than large. Did he have any documented example of the Villain attempting an outrageous steal? People can run hot for that sample of hands. This guy is still a 22/20 not some uber lag aggro.
 
M

MinhANguyen

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Total posts
695
Chips
0
Yeah, I agree. From my experience, most people are not messing around with a large isolation raise PF. We obviously have a strong range, as if we had something speculative like a pocket pair or a suited connector, we'd probably limp behind. I also find that people are not willing to isolate 2-3+ limpers without premium hands. I'd probably give someone a range of JJ/AQs+ at the minimum when they 3-bet us like this from the SB. Maybe even tighter. They are playing OOP deep-stacked to the original raiser, who has a strong range. Against this 3-bet range, we are crushed.

This is also Zone, so I don't see a reason why a reg would try to push small edges against a strong hand range and against another deep stacker with something like KQo, KJs, A3s, 99, etc.
 
Figaroo2

Figaroo2

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Total posts
7,363
Awards
16
Chips
13
When I examined my 3bet calling range using leakbuster KQs came up as one of my biggest losers. Someone mentioned in the thread that this hand is easily dominated and that is the main problem here. All too often this 3bet will be from AQ AK and we are in oft in trouble when we hit top pair
It is essentially a drawing hand with some top pair value but often in 3bet pots you don't have the time for the hand to develop past the turn without pot commitment becoming an issue.
Reluctant fold pre. I don't blame anyone for calling though in the circumstances of this hand and as it played out it is a cooler very difficult to get away from.
It would have helped if the poster had NOT posted the villains cards.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
The sample is 172 hands. He's not just running hot.

A good exercise is to take their preflop range, and see how your equity stacks up on the flops you hit. These 3 general sims show we're not crushed when we play back at his cbets on these boards. And there are enough combos of these flop types to let us play the hand.

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board: K**
KQ 67.08% (381,636 wins, 41,651 ties)
10% 32.92% (176,713 wins, 41,651 ties)

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board: Q**
KQ 64.51% (366,612 wins, 40,900 ties)
10% 35.49% (192,488 wins, 40,900 ties)

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board: T9*
KQ 40.81% (216,376 wins, 57,003 ties)
10% 59.19% (326,621 wins, 57,003 ties)
 
Top