$5 NLHE 6-max: River call with a bluff catcher vs reg.

I have a couple of questions for this hand.

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (UTG): 125.2 BB
MP: 130.8 BB (VPIP: 24.18, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 2.78, hands: 99) - MP is 20 tabling
CO: 225.8 BB (VPIP: 54.29, PFR: 17.14, 3Bet Preflop: 8.82, Hands: 70)
BTN: 98.6 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
SB: 147.6 BB (VPIP: 16.13, PFR: 16.13, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 64)
BB: 101.4 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 13.89, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 73)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has T:spade: A:spade:

Hero raises to 3 BB, MP calls 3 BB, CO calls 3 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (12.4 BB, 4 players) K:club: T:diamond: 6:heart:
BB checks, Hero checks, MP checks, CO checks

Turn: (12.4 BB, 4 players) 9:diamond:
BB checks, Hero bets 5 BB, MP calls 5 BB, fold, fold

River: (22.4 BB, 2 players) K:spade:
Hero checks, MP bets 26 BB, Hero calls 26 BB


Should I be C-betting this flop into 3x players? if so how much? I am just check folding this flop to pretty much any bet. Is this too nitty? I just hate so many turns and being OOP is the bane of my existence.

I don't like my turn bet, in the moment I thought that the 9 creates a lot of draws and I should be charging them and that it's unlikely a bare king checks the flop so I have the best hand a lot of the time, I will be folding to a raise here. What I don't like is my sizing, I believe it is too small, I need to make it more to charge draws. I think my thinking was that I can get away cheap when someone raises but that sounds fishy to me haha.

The K on the river reduces the frequency that villain has Kx and I believe that villain raises AK pre and bets with KJ and KQ on the flop (especially 4 ways). K10 shouldn't be in villains pre flatting range very often and I block that anyway making it less likely.

What do you guys think? Do you think villain would play JJ like this and value bet the river? I struggled to put villain on a hand here. But I know river bluffs are rare at this level.

Check flop is good against 3 players. Bet turn maybe a little more. Easy fold on the river. I would bet the river as well.

I think this is a bad situation to bluff catch so i don't mind making a laydown here. We have just invested 8 bucks into this pot against multiple players.

So i don't think it is a good idea to invest 26 bucks more when we just have a bluff catching hand. So fold.

Regarding the c-bet question i would say no i don't like c-betting at that spot against so many opponents. So you played the hand well.

However there is one other thing i prefer to do against simply just check folding the river. That is to lead out the river for value and then fold if we get raised. What do you think about this ??

suby_rafael said:

I think this is a bad situation to bluff catch so i don't mind making a laydown here. We have just invested 8 bucks into this pot against multiple players.

So i don't think it is a good idea to invest 26 bucks more when we just have a bluff catching hand. So fold.

Regarding the c-bet question i would say no i don't like c-betting at that spot against so many opponents. So you played the hand well.

However there is one other thing i prefer to do against simply just check folding the river. That is to lead out the river for value and then fold if we get raised. What do you think about this ??

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I think I might have been thinking that I never get called by worse? And also that villain folds all underpairs on the turn when I lead into 3 players, I mean maybe villain flats the turn with 88?

I just thought that villain either had a monster or nothing on the river here and more of villains flatting range on the turn is draws (as villain probably raises more of their value range). Which means that I'm almost never getting flatted if I bet say 60% of the pot on the river, villain is folding all their missed draws and raising all their monsters. If I check then villain is checking back all the 1 pair hands that may have made it to the river (which I beat all of except JJ) and bets their monsters and bluffs.

As I said before I think that villains turn flatting range is weighted toward draws as most players will raise my turn bet with big hands, especially with players behind. Meaning that their river betting range is weighted towards bluffs as they will turn a percentage of their missed draws without show down value into bluffs.

Does that make sense? Or am I just over thinking this?

Ok so assuming villain's hand ranges in this situation.

1. Any King.
2. Connectors like QJ, 78. [straight] / 910 [two pair on the turn].
3. Missed drawing hands like - AQ, AJ, J8 or 79.

So if villain calls the turn with any of the above hands he is likely to bet the river if we check. Which is why even if villain is bluffing it is better to fold than to take a risk and bluff catch because of villain's bet-sizing. So we invest 8 bucks and there is no need to call 26 bucks on the river as there are enough hands in villain's range that has our hand crushed. So just fold.

I think this is a pretty easy fold. It's multi-way most of the hand, there are draws that complete or 2 pairs that boat up. I think at this stake you're going to get way more value hands than someone bluffing over 37% of the time imho.

He should be betting K on flop and raising any big hands for value. Overbet makes me guess he doesn't have a value hand and there are missed diamond draws, so I'm calling.

Henreiman said:

He should be betting K on flop and raising any big hands for value. Overbet makes me guess he doesn't have a value hand and there are missed diamond draws, so I'm calling.

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^^^^ this is exactly what I was thinking at the time.

Henreiman said:

He should be betting K on flop and raising any big hands for value. Overbet makes me guess he doesn't have a value hand and there are missed diamond draws, so I'm calling.

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Wardy88 said:

^^^^ this is exactly what I was thinking at the time.

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Your thinking is pretty much one dimensional. You are not exploring other possibilities and you are not taking odds or statistics into the equation. You just have a feeling that your hand is good and you don't want to be bluffed.

Assuming villain has a big hand. In a multiway pot there is a good chance of villain slow playing a big hand or a king on the flop. If you bet into him on the turn there is no reason for him to keep slow playing the hand as there are two more players to act after him. If he raises he might lose all the action not only from the other too but from you as well. So why would he raise if he has a big hand on the turn ??

The dude's 20 tabling? I doubt he's gunna be making moves, looks like a slow played set/boat to me.

suby_rafael said:

Your thinking is pretty much one dimensional. You are not exploring other possibilities and you are not taking odds or statistics into the equation. You just have a feeling that your hand is good and you don't want to be bluffed.

Assuming villain has a big hand. In a multiway pot there is a good chance of villain slow playing a big hand or a king on the flop. If you bet into him on the turn there is no reason for him to keep slow playing the hand as there are two more players to act after him. If he raises he might lose all the action not only from the other too but from you as well. So why would he raise if he has a big hand on the turn ??

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I think if villain has say 66 here, isn't not raising the turn a bit crazy? We have three other players in the pot on a really draw heavy turn card, one of whom has already shown some interest in the hand, its unlikely anybody at these stakes is folding a flush draw to a raise here (one of the villains is running a 54/17 with 200bb remember).

Doesn't the fact that there are more players in the hand make slow playing bad? As we add more players to the hand it becomes less likely that villain will make all of them fold with a bet/raise and thus easier for them to get more money into the pot with the best hand.

That being said. Assuming that villain knows this and will act like this is one dimensional but I am still new to this game and not very good at hand reading in the moment, or calculating the exact odds. I have to make decisions based on what information I have, the fact that villain was 20 tabling should also decrease the amount that they will slow play in this spot, and so I removed most of villains big hands from their range on the turn.

But the fact that villain is 20 tabling also makes a river bluffs a lot less likely especially overbet bluffs. My issue is weighting which of these two things should push me to calling or folding. According to you guys think I should be folding, is this because villains just never pull big river bluffs? and that these villains also make risky slow plays that IMO are bad? and all this is because I'm playing 5nl where everyone is bad (hopefully just slightly less bad than I am?).

Betting the flop is fine. And you may consider folding on the river.

I like not c-betting here. Delayed c-bet on turn is fine but should probably be bigger. Definitely a fold on the river for me. I would have liked to put out a blocker and fold if raised.

nmaher18 said:

I like not c-betting here. Delayed c-bet on turn is fine but should probably be bigger. Definitely a fold on the river for me. I would have liked to put out a blocker and fold if raised.

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As there are some draws existing, Cbet is necessary here