$5 NLHE 6-max: reraised after rivering set

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 25/20/1

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com/

Hero (SB) ($13.08)
BB ($6.10)
UTG ($5)
MP ($5.97)
CO ($5.81)
Button ($4.73)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8 , 8
UTG raises to $0.17, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.15, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.39) 7 , 10 , 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.24, Hero calls $0.24

Turn: ($0.87) J (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks

River: ($0.87) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.55, UTG raises to $2.07, Hero folds

Total pot: $1.97 | Rake: $0.08

Results below:

Obv wasnt x/r re title. my bad.

thoughts?

Why you bet on river if u see there is straight draw and u gonna fold your hand on raise. Also u had to cbet on flop, and I would re-raise on preflop to ~9-10 bbs. No mistakes only after turn.

Ozzzzy said:

Why you bet on river if u see there is straight draw and u gonna fold your hand on raise. Also u had to cbet on flop, and I would re-raise on preflop to ~9-10 bbs. No mistakes only after turn.

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How can he cbet the flop as the pre-flop caller?

Also I disagree with 3 betting a UTG open with 88.

River as played is a fold without more information on villain.

It is an odd spot because he shouldn't really have any 9's in that spot other than 99 UTG (as a general rule, this is why player stats and tendencies are so important) but its also hard for him to have a bluff there, especially as you are much more likely to have a 9 in your range than he is.

In future, river is a check call line. You get value here from all villain bluffs, and some hands that don't check back and go for thin value such as TPTK and 2P hands.

Full transparency: I haven't played poker since 2010. Take everything I say with a grain of salt.

ConDeck said:

How can he cbet the flop as the pre-flop caller?

Also I disagree with 3 betting a UTG open with 88.

River as played is a fold without more information on villain.

It is an odd spot because he shouldn't really have any 9's in that spot other than 99 UTG (as a general rule, this is why player stats and tendencies are so important) but its also hard for him to have a bluff there, especially as you are much more likely to have a 9 in your range than he is.

In future, river is a check call line. You get value here from all villain bluffs, and some hands that don't check back and go for thin value such as TPTK and 2P hands.

Click to expand...

I don't know how tough these limits are these days, but without a read and based on how these limits used to be: Well played.

(Do $5NL players have a concept of "thin value" nowadays? Sheesh, I got out in time)

F Paulsson said:

(Do $5NL players have a concept of "thin value" nowadays? Sheesh, I got out in time)

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Some certainly do however in this situation I primarily mean over valuing there hand or just doing random fish like behaviour. I just meant that they think they are value betting ("I have AJ I have to bet!") when in fact in reality nothing worse can call so they are essentially turning there hand into a bluff.

Thin value betting would be as played above with the rivered set, hoping to get a fishy call by AJ or 2P. The problem here is when raised you have to fold and you lose value from your opponents bluffing range and weak value range.

Another thing to consider is that while a reasonable number of microstakes players (I am a micro grinder I should add) know about concepts such as thin value, they do not truly understand them and use it to justify bad plays to themselves etc often ending horribly.

What is the old saying? A little information can be a dangerous thing...

I often see plays or justifications for plays that use all sorts of terminology but are incorrectly applied and the end result is always the same long term : costly.

River is pretty villain dependent and against more passive villains that are checking back majority of showdown value hands bet folding river is fine and if you think villain is bluffing river a decent amount of the time then check calling is fine.

As played, good fold.

I like the flat here and id lead out knowing we are infront most times

Leadout turn because our villains range mostly misses .. sure we got j in his hands but we cant let str or flushes come out

River we will bet and gii... if hes got it then we make a note how wide he is and not leave this table til he leaves

Quote:


Originally Posted by Ozzzzy

Why you bet on river if u see there is straight draw and u gonna fold your hand on raise. Also u had to cbet on flop, and I would re-raise on preflop to ~9-10 bbs. No mistakes only after turn.

How can he cbet the flop as the pre-flop caller?

Also I disagree with 3 betting a UTG open with 88.

River as played is a fold without more information on villain.

It is an odd spot because he shouldn't really have any 9's in that spot other than 99 UTG (as a general rule, this is why player stats and tendencies are so important) but its also hard for him to have a bluff there, especially as you are much more likely to have a 9 in your range than he is.

In future, river is a check call line. You get value here from all villain bluffs, and some hands that don't check back and go for thin value such as TPTK and 2P hands.

Click to expand...

He can C-bet the flop if he had 3-bet preflop and got called. I think that is what ozzy is saying here and I agree w/ him. I believe that if hero 3-bets pre and gets a call and c-bets flop he wins it right there. I don't always 3-bet w/ medium pocket pairs, but I like to 3-bet above 7% and if I am looking for a hand to get up to my 7% I will do it w/ 8's.

I guess the only hand other than a bluff he could have in this spot is 99. His stats don't seem to be fishy so I doubt he'd be doing this with something like JT or AJ. I think you made a good fold. I wouldn't have bet on the river though. Much less risky to just check/call in this spot.

So many hands we beat check back though and maybe call us. Wanted thin value. 99 turns up here a lot imho!

F Paulsson said:

I don't know how tough these limits are these days, but without a read and based on how these limits used to be: Well played.

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Yep

It's a good fold but I'd probably check call the river instead of betting out. You would've lost the about the same when you bet fold or won the pot if he had overplayed his hand. Since it's a UTG open, it's unlikely he could have a 9 but with no info on the player it's hard to say. So a check call may have been a good way to obtain some info. At the same time you might induced a worst hand to bluff.

i had a similar spot in a live game this week, except the card which completed my set also completed both the flush and straight draws. it was a passive pot after the flop cbet got called, and i just opted to check my set on the river. with the intention of calling a small bet on the river

you gotta think, what hands am i trying to get to call? all one pair hands are folding and it's pretty thin value to be hoping some 2 pair hand calls. your opponent would have to be fairly weak, so definitely as mentioned above, give someone a chance to bluff, it's always good to call someones Ace high or pair that was good until the river.