$5 NLHE 6-max: Overpair with deep stacks vs a maniac

$5 NL HE 6-max: Overpair with deep stacks vs a maniac

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 60/38/3

poker stars $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 745816
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

CO: $15.54
BTN: $3.15
Hero (SB): $12.50
BB: $4.89
UTG: $17.65

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is SB with K :spade: K :diamond:
UTG raises to $0.15, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.60, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.45

Flop: ($1.25) 8 :diamond: Q :diamond: 5 :club: (2 players)
Hero bets $1, UTG raises to $17.05 all in, Hero calls $10.90 all in

Turn: ($25.05) 6 :heart: (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: ($25.05) A :spade: (2 players - 2 are all in)


Should I have called his shove on the flop? he had done this a few times already, another hand where i had tt, flop was ak7. He said he had ak for that hand after i folded to his all in. If this was a normal villain, i would fold right away, but against this guy should i have called?

In response to him saying he had AK, why do you believe him? I would have done the same thing you just did here. Nothing wrong with your play.

well he hadnt 3bet at all through about twenty chances, and he did that hand. right after i clicked call with tt actually, i wished i had just folded, as I put him on aa, kk, qq or ak.

Yeah, I'm not folding an overpair to a maniac.

Call.

Alot of the times these shoves mean TP any kicker, flush and straight draws (both possible here).

The combos of all those hands are much bigger than those of sets and 2-pairs (and you still have decent odds against 2 pairs) so easy call.

ComplexPlaya said:

Alot of the times these shoves mean TP any kicker, flush and straight draws (both possible here).

The combos of all those hands are much bigger than those of sets and 2-pairs (and you still have decent odds against 2 pairs) so easy call.

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Alright im glad thats what my read was too. Turned out he had q8 for two pair lol. Maniacs can drive you crazy sometimes

rssurfer54 said:

Alright im glad thats what my read was too. Turned out he had q8 for two pair lol. Maniacs can drive you crazy sometimes

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It's OK, winning a few pots like these is what keeps them in the game.

I know what you mean about driving crazy, I think that's the bulk of my current downswing. Patience is not easy vs maniacs!

1st wrong assumption: people are stupid.
2nd wrong assumption: you are ahead here enough to call.
People who start off well play their relative hands to win the hand. The fact that he thinks he can be coy about it and get more money will lose him more than he stands to make in lost value. The fact that he does these outrageous plays will mean that he will be a losing lag in about 5k hands.

id like to clarify something. You dont play overpair against villains stackoff when he's shoving over a nothing raise. Tp hands are losing hands. They are small pot 2street hands. Pot control and dont play for stacks lightly. its irrelevant if he's a maniac or an sser or just plain out moron. He still plays relative hand strengh often enough and so should you.

Skaplun said:

id like to clarify something. You dont play overpair against villains stackoff when he's shoving over a nothing raise. Tp hands are losing hands. They are small pot 2street hands. Pot control and dont play for stacks lightly. its irrelevant if he's a maniac or an sser or just plain out moron. He still plays relative hand strengh often enough and so should you.

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clarify again? you think i should have folded? I mean this is why i put the hand up, that I thought it might have a been a mistake to call. but you seem to be in the minority. I think he definitely would do this with any q, and maybe his draws too, which was stated above.

everyone who just told you to call is basically a losing player. Pokerkid will tell you that himself. You have no idea why your villain is shoving and what he's trying to achieve. your best bet with a villain that has a 250bb stack is that his value lines are very coy and cute. if the shove came on a turn like q833 I could see a call but even then only after quite a bit of thought. Fold, very clear fold. You have to be right here half the time, and you are not right in assuming half of your opponents are doing thing for shits and giggles

I agree that not half are doing this for shits and giggles. but i think this guy was. I think he would push with any q, thinking it was the nuts. Im not saying you are wrong, i just dont understand. Also, the max buyin at the .02 .05 is 12.50 now on pokerstars, so if you are implying he won a bunch first through some tricky line, thats not the case.

Skaplun probably has a point, makes me re-think this. There are different kind of maniacs tho. Some of them don't stack up that light, some do. That's why it's confusing at times.

If you think he would stack up with less than 2 pair here, calling is clearly correct. And you wouldn't have to be correct half the times either, it's much less than that, probably 37% or something, since you will beat 2 pair here 25.5% of the times, and there was already money invested in the pot as well...I'd still call

I'm not folding an overpair here against an aggressive fish. It's just not happening.

Anyone has random stuff in their range at every point in any hand, a 60/38 has a huge amount of random stuff (especially on the flop) which is why we have to call. I believe he does this with flush draws, with ATC on random spazzy reads and feelings, with top pair and with nut hands.

Giving him a range seems a futile exercise but giving him QQ,88,55,Q8 as a value range (Q8 and Q5 both only show up some of the time, I just used Q8 to represent both), assuming he does this just with AK and KQ that we beat, we have to call (it's almost exactly a coinflip). The weak part of his range is way wider than that.

everyone who just told you to call is basically a losing player. Pokerkid will tell you that himself.

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I exagerate my suckiness.

i just cant see folding this. his hand to me seems like aq/kq and u have kq crushed right there. so i would have to say call here.