$5 NLHE 6-max: Over pair on dry board thinking raise

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braveslice

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  1. Should I raise flop?
  2. As played should I raise turn?
  3. Good river bet size would be?
I called pre because I believed he would make much more aggression errors post flop than calling mistakes.

I betted small on the river because when playing I was thinking Ax type hand being in his range too, and also it might seem I do cheap bluff try. Also if he protected a hand from flush draw (as some do) too large would scare him away. I wasn't too scared him to have flush, because I was ready to fold to large raise (probably =) ).

Thoughts about raising during the hand: If I raise flop he might fold even over pairs and he would bet them probably OTT too, when he betted turn big I was thinking he does the betting for me so no need to raise and also he sometimes has better hand.


PokerStars - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 136.2 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 3)
SB: 119 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
BB: 110.4 BB (VPIP: 13.79, PFR: 6.90, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 29)
UTG: 100 BB (VPIP: 28.17, PFR: 21.13, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 76)
Hero (MP): 152.2 BB
CO: 149.2 BB (VPIP: 10.00, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K K

UTG raises to 3 BB, Hero calls 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold

Flop: (7.4 BB, 2 players) 7 3 3
UTG bets 5.2 BB, Hero calls 5.2 BB

Turn: (17.8 BB, 2 players) 8
UTG bets 12.8 BB, Hero calls 12.8 BB

River: (43.4 BB, 2 players) 2
UTG checks, Hero bets 14.4 BB
 
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Aces2w1n

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3bet man.... once u flat ur letting them open much wider
 
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Mazak

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1. Yes, you HAD TO raise
2. Yes, you SHOULD
3. could bet a bit more for value
 
Romario2223

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3bet preflop and very small raise on the river
 
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braveslice

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3bet man.... once u flat ur letting them open much wider
No worries mate I still 3bet KK over 90% of time. Here player position UTG, my position and most importantly villain’s assumed style made me choose the calling line. I know this goes against the rule of making plays easy, but either I’m lucky or this works, too few hands in with style to be any way certain. Against UTG I don’t really have a bluff raising range (don’t tell them, even thought they kinda know it) and vs later positions you could argue that my bluffing range just widens, some would argue that a bit too much (but don’t tell them, they have no idea) to keep them honest. After all they fold to 3bets way too often.
1. Yes, you HAD TO raise
2. Yes, you SHOULD
3. could bet a bit more for value
Yeah, I feel the same, but can’t get myself understanding the reasoning behind this. If we aim 2 streets of value, rising would over play this hand a lot and we got our 2 streets. Are we assuming villain is fishy enough to play stacks with second best hand here? This goes also against the basic assumption I made when decided to call with KK that he makes agro mistakes much more than calling mistakes.
3bet preflop and very small raise on the river
So you would say that the bet size was quite close of being correct on the river?
 
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braveslice

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So is my whole attitude of not trying to get stacks in with over pair wrong?
 
Aces2w1n

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Its wrong cuz 88-qq can get sticky. I dont like the raise because it gets him away from hands sometimes.

Id bet 30 or so on river. Fold if raised.

And check behind if im worried
 
marieemce

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3bet preflop, call here is very dangerous, people with bad cards can easily enter the pot and screw you.
And a very small raise on the river
 
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I think you should raise pre-flop in position. Given that UTG leans towards aggressive style they will likely barrel into you on the flop and turn on most boards.

I would call the flop bet. Sometimes min raising their turn bet at these stakes can cause people to bluff spew or get a call from hands that would call a river bet as the odds are 'too good'.
 
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braveslice

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3bet preflop, call here is very dangerous, people with bad cards can easily enter the pot and screw you.
And a very small raise on the river
Yeah, actually I though here 3 sec extra because calling so early would mean many players after me would get so good odds to call. No obvious loose players though. I decided that the reward would be higher than the risk. Also this works other way too, maybe someone decides to squeeze, and that would be sweet.
Given that UTG leans towards aggressive style they will likely barrel into you on the flop and turn on most boards.
Yeah, here he actually did it with 78s, I can’t blame him though, sounds reasonable to do.
Maybe if I raise turn, I can’t get value on the river, so hmm maybe more value raising turn because raise size is larger.
 
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RakeMyLife

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Yeah, actually I though here 3 sec extra because calling so early would mean many players after me would get so good odds to call. No obvious loose players though. I decided that the reward would be higher than the risk. Also this works other way too, maybe someone decides to squeeze, and that would be sweet.

Yeah, here he actually did it with 78s, I can’t blame him though, sounds reasonable to do.
Maybe if I raise turn, I can’t get value on the river, so hmm maybe more value raising turn because raise size is larger.

Not adding too much new, but I agree flatting pre in this particular spot is very risky. Late position, late raiser, few ppl in would be ideal to flat I think.

I'd say flop is best time to raise bc ur perceived range is widest (allowing him to call weaker).

Turn, given how you played it, has to be a raise. Mostly bc by the river, villain is almost certainly worried u have him beat (esp with flush hitting), so u are then looking for the thinnest of value. Which is why...

River should be very small or very large (I think ur bet size is fine). He would not check a monster to you (and thus not call a medium or large sized bet), but might call a small bet with overpair or two pair (his most likely hands). Large bet for u would be if u think u can trick him into hero calling (unlikely though).

Note: I wouldn't worry about a river check-raise. Your hand has great value to bet, and bet/bet/check-raise is a very uncommon line.
 
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braveslice

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Thanks @Rake, I feel you are 100% correct on everything. Too bad next chance to try is so far away. However, I'm still not sure if this is the correct player to raise flop instead of turn, but given so many are saying flop I try to do that next (against my nature, and plan hmmm).
 
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Xcoder

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I think a raise would have been a better move to make. More value and also squeezing your opponents range.
 
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