$5 NLHE 6-max: OOP with Qs.

brank

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$5 NL HE 6-max: OOP with Qs.

I lose money with Qs. Trying to figure out why.

Villain is tight but relatively unknown. 40ish hands. Hes like a 14/8 with ATS of 15% but really not many hands.

I 3 bet him here cause Im OOP, dont have any stats on fold to 3 bets and he might even have a decent but worse hand he'll call with. FWIW Ive been 3 betting alot, dont know if villain is noticing though.

**Side note** Sometimes depending on what I think my table image is Ill just flat big pairs to a BU raise cause they always fold so easily to 3 bets, wrong?

Alright, so he calls the c bet. Shutdown here and try to get to shown down cheap/hope he checks behinds? B/f, c/f turn? Gawd I hate being OOP.



full tilt poker $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

UTG: $5.13
CO: $5.07
BTN: $4.37
Hero (SB): $6.87
BB: $5.38

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is SB with Q :diamond: Q :heart:
2 folds, BTN raises to $0.15, Hero raises to $0.50, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.35

Flop: ($1.05) 2 :heart: 4 :spade: K :club: (2 players)
Hero bets $0.70, BTN calls $0.70

Turn: ($2.45) T :heart: (2 players)

Hero???
 
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matt20

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well i dont see him calling with alot worse on the turn. thats a super dry board... He may call a flop bet with 55-10s on the flop, but I think you are just folding out these hands on the turn and more then likely value towning yourself against the king he is not going to fold.
 
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BUMP for some <3?

Or is this way too STD and boring of a hand....
 
Pokerstudent

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It is a standard hand, but I don't have a definitive answer.

Obviously, if you checked in position, you would have a much smaller pot. You would check/call flop and could see what the bet is on the turn when you checked again. But not raising makes you lose value.

So, okay, you 3-bet the blind. He calls. Maybe you plan to bet flop and turn. So you could reduce the bet size of most of your bets to allow you to do so.

He bets 0.15, you reraise only to 0.38. He calls. Now only 0.85 is in the pot. You bet 0.45, he calls. Now, 1.75 in the pot instead of 2.45. You bet 1.00. If he calls, he has less than a pot size bet. You probably have to shove the river and if you lose, you lose. You could check the river and see if they bet, but generally betting twice and checking the river is a sign of weakness.

You could also 3-bet like you said, but check the flop to control the pot. If they check as well, then you're probably in a much better situation. If they bet 3/4 to pot, you can peel one off and call. A bet on the turn screams strength (especially since there are no draws) and you should fold. Actually, I much prefer this line to the one I wrote above.

I like to mix this strategy up with just calling w/ QQ's from the blinds. You are still getting value, but it helps to know you can bet because the pot is already small.
 
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Skaplun said:
b\f turn
Click to expand...

More of this...


My question was basically, "Is this a b/f or a c/f?".


Thanks for the reply Pstud but a coupe of things....

Pokerstudent said:
It is a standard hand, but I don't have a definitive answer.

Obviously, if you checked in position, you would have a much smaller pot. You would check/call flop and could see what the bet is on the turn when you checked again. But not raising makes you lose value.

This is specificaly about being OOP. Obvs being in position makes this hand/situation way easier.

So, okay, you 3-bet the blind. He calls. Maybe you plan to bet flop and turn. So you could reduce the bet size of most of your bets to allow you to do so.

He bets 0.15, you reraise only to 0.38. He calls. Now only 0.85 is in the pot. You bet 0.45, he calls. Now, 1.75 in the pot instead of 2.45. You bet 1.00. If he calls, he has less than a pot size bet. You probably have to shove the river and if you lose, you lose. You could check the river and see if they bet, but generally betting twice and checking the river is a sign of weakness.

I dont like 3 betting smaller here for a couple of reasons. I want to keep my 3 bets vs BU raise consistant and I dont want to give him correct odds to call. Ill also be losing value when he calls with worse hands.

You could also 3-bet like you said, but check the flop to control the pot. If they check as well, then you're probably in a much better situation. If they bet 3/4 to pot, you can peel one off and call. A bet on the turn screams strength (especially since there are no draws) and you should fold. Actually, I much prefer this line to the one I wrote above.

I think checking OOP in a 3 bet pot is super weak and if you're not gopnna c bet it then you probs shouldnt 3 bet it pre.

I like to mix this strategy up with just calling w/ QQ's from the blinds. You are still getting value, but it helps to know you can bet because the pot is already small.

I did have that side note about how I sometimes flat pre with big pairs if Villain folds to 3 bets a high % of times. Is this a bad play? Anyone?
Click to expand...
 
forsakenone

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dude i think you are analyzing wayyyyyy to much for 5nl. i would bet the turn, like half the pot and if he calls i shut down on the river unless he makes a small bet. 40 hands is enough to tell if he is tight and he is, probably has Ak or JJ or TT, can't think of any other hand he is willing to call a 3bet with. by betting half the pot on the turn we should find out where you are.

also, just a quick note, i think you are analyzing too much for 5nl, tho often giving people credit they don't need. i bet even the grinders at this level don't look at your 3bet %.
 
brank

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you might be right forsakenone, you might be right. lets pretend its nl50 then, for discussion sake. what would you do?

If im playin at nl5 and looking at opponents 3 bet%s and fold to 3 bet %s then I don't think its too far fetched to assume others are as well, not many but some for sure. I have heard/read that FT and PS have better competition and from what Ive seen there are some not completely terrible players. Obvs most people at nl5 are complete idiots and no one is amazingly good other wise they would move up amirite?

and pokerstudent, I hope you dont think I was cuttin you down or anything, I was just trying to get a little discussion goin:)
 
bgomez89

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3bet more pre. b/f turn. shut down on river.
 
Pokerstudent

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brank said:
you might be right forsakenone, you might be right. lets pretend its nl50 then, for discussion sake. what would you do?

If im playin at nl5 and looking at opponents 3 bet%s and fold to 3 bet %s then I don't think its too far fetched to assume others are as well, not many but some for sure. I have heard/read that FT and PS have better competition and from what Ive seen there are some not completely terrible players. Obvs most people at nl5 are complete idiots and no one is amazingly good other wise they would move up amirite?

and pokerstudent, I hope you dont think I was cuttin you down or anything, I was just trying to get a little discussion goin:)
Click to expand...

Cuttin me down? :mad: :confused: :mad:

Heck no! :D This is exactly what I like. Poker discussion. And I want different opinions. I looked at what you wrote again.

1) For some reason thought you were IP, not OOP. Totally changes my viewpoint.
2) I understand keeping consistent bet sizing. That is a very good point. Although, if the villian is not a regular, it probably isn't as important. And if he's not a thinking player, he probably won't notice. I assume this because you stated earlier that you had been 3-betting a lot, but that you did not think he noticed.
3) 3-betting OOP. Why do you think it is super weak? I do understand the idea of not C-betting afterwards makes the 3-bet weak, but did you have another reason? Very interested.

I'm trying to learn this game very badly! Any criticism/discussion points is great for me!
 
LuckyChippy

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You should c-bet OOP in a 3-bet pot nearly 100% of the time i think. b/f turn, anything else is super obvious and weak.
 
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pokerstud, I dont think 3 bettin OOP is weak, just not c betting a 3 bet pot OOP is weak.

Im hearing a lot of b/f here. Basically why I posted this hand was cause in the moment I couldnt figure out which one would be better.
 
Pascal-lf

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Any stats on fold to c-bet?
 
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