$5 NLHE 6-max: KK played too passive of the turn?

A

ArcticBeef

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 19, 2014
Total posts
39
Chips
0
$5 NLHE 6-max: KK played too passive on the turn?

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 57/7/2

I decided to check the turn because I couldn't figure out why both players called the flop with no draws. Should I have made a bet and then got out of the way if there was a big raise? Also was the river bet small enough to look him up?

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 105.2 BB (VPIP: 47.37, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 19)
UTG: 98.4 BB (VPIP: 51.85, PFR: 7.41, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 28)
MP: 70.6 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 5.56, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
Hero (CO): 99.6 BB
BTN: 74.8 BB (VPIP: 37.50, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
SB: 27.2 BB (VPIP: 61.54, PFR: 15.38, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 13)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K K

UTG calls 1 BB, fold, Hero raises to 4 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 3 BB, UTG calls 3 BB

Flop: (12.4 BB, 3 players) 8 5 8
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets 7.2 BB, BB calls 7.2 BB, UTG calls 7.2 BB

Turn: (34 BB, 3 players) J
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks

River: (34 BB, 3 players) 9
BB bets 1 BB, UTG raises to 14 BB, fold, fold,
 
Last edited:
W

Wardy88

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Total posts
110
Chips
0
Pre flop raise is good.

Flop bet is good too.

On the turn we can definitely bet this. You say that you couldn't figure out why both players called the flop with no draws. How do we know they aren't drawing , like 69 or 74, there are a few gutters, and these guys aren't afraid of a flop bet. Plus you will be floated a lot on paired boards from regs (don't know if these guys are regs?) because the C-bet seems so standard. Also small pairs call as well.

Yes if there is a big raise we can get away from it but there isn't going to be very often.

Its hard to say for the river as played, I think I call here thinking villain will show me 97 or 96 a fair amount of the time and the price is ok, but I'm not really sure.
 
T

tomnovember

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Total posts
598
Chips
0
You shall cbet the turn and fold to any turn raises。
 
John A

John A

Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Total posts
6,492
Awards
3
Chips
37
Raise more pre-flop. Bet the turn. You say there's no draws, but there are. Especially against donks you're going to have some OESD and gutter balls they will still call. Sometimes these guys will call with AJ on the flop, etc... lots of second best hands still and value to be had.
 
swerdnase

swerdnase

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Total posts
135
Chips
0
There are definitely some straight draws that could have called, as well as hands like 77 that don't know where they stand, and overcards like KQ that were hoping to hit on the turn. I won't say you should have bet the turn like everyone else has so far, but I will say there were more calling ranges out there than you probably first perceived.
 
John A

John A

Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Total posts
6,492
Awards
3
Chips
37
There are definitely some straight draws that could have called, as well as hands like 77 that don't know where they stand, and overcards like KQ that were hoping to hit on the turn. I won't say you should have bet the turn like everyone else has so far, but I will say there were more calling ranges out there than you probably first perceived.

mmm... both players look like mega fish though. I think it's a lot of missed equity if you're checking the turn here. If you get raised, then it's an easy fold against fishcakes. But you're not checking to bluff catch multi-way, so you need to go for value.

If one of these guys isn't a mega fish, then check/bet turn become a lot closer.
 
youregoodmate

youregoodmate

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 22, 2012
Total posts
2,683
Chips
0
More pre. More on the flop. Definitely bet the turn and then the river. As played its a call on the river.
 
T

tomnovember

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Total posts
598
Chips
0
More pre. More on the flop. Definitely bet the turn and then the river. As played its a call on the river.

Bet the turn, but just call to showdown on the river. That's enough.
 
akaRobbo

akaRobbo

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Total posts
656
Chips
0
Need be firing all 3 streets here if you're not getting raised m8
 
T

thatgreekdude

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Total posts
1,024
Awards
1
Chips
1
You've got to at least bet the turn, so many worse pairs and a few draws that we can extract value from.
 
Figaroo2

Figaroo2

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Total posts
7,363
Awards
16
Chips
13
Looking at the vpip of the villains they are both fish playing 61 &51% of their hands they could have virtually anything here.
The flop bet is fine you are only behind to 55 or trip 8s which are long shots.
The J on the turn doesn't complete any draws so not betting now and giving them both a free card is a big mistake thats where it got away from you. you must charge the draws here .
 
youregoodmate

youregoodmate

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 22, 2012
Total posts
2,683
Chips
0
So what kind of hands do you think that will call here?

We don't have many hands on utg but he seems like a drooler. Any Jx will call here that floated the flop. Don't give so much credit to 5nl players. Even the regs are awful.
 
T

tomnovember

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Total posts
598
Chips
0
We don't have many hands on utg but he seems like a drooler. Any Jx will call here that floated the flop. Don't give so much credit to 5nl players. Even the regs are awful.

Jx……and call the flop?!
 
H

hffjd2000

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Total posts
2,329
Chips
0
Good lay down.

I think UTG really beats you here.
 
okeedokalee

okeedokalee

Glory To Ukraine
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Total posts
5,542
Awards
22
NZ
Chips
163
You had two players stay in the hand on the flop, one of them probably has you beaten by the river if they raise that big.
People bluff a lot less than we think they do.
The UTG PFR was 7% so 8s are in that range and his AF was 2% and 2 percenters are not very aggressive without good reason.
However it appears the BB was .05 and it was 70 cents to call 14 x 5.
Personally having contributed 11.2 BBs to the pot already with KK I would have called.
But I'm a fish and that is what we do:D
 
T

tomnovember

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Total posts
598
Chips
0
A few Jx that could float IMO, J10, J9 hearts in particular.

Raise more pre, bet flop, bet turn, bet-fold river.

Crazy play here……quite hard to understand......So this kind of calling is what your opponents always do?
 
Top