$5 NLHE 6-max: KK flopping bad OOP deep stacked

Alucard

Alucard

Santoryu
Silver Level
Joined
May 7, 2017
Total posts
3,235
Chips
0
WTF to do here? I got no clue.. Should I lead the turn with an ace? Cause check calling seems pretty bad & exactly what I did

pokerstars - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

BTN: 48.6 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 9)
Hero (SB): 372.2 BB
BB: 48.4 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 2)
UTG: 417.8 BB (VPIP: 17.07, PFR: 14.63, 3Bet Preflop: 11.76, Hands: 44)
MP: 101.4 BB (VPIP: 29.03, PFR: 19.35, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 32)
CO: 247.2 BB (VPIP: 35.71, PFR: 26.19, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 44)

Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Ks Kh
fold, fold, CO raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero raises to 11 BB, fold, CO calls 8 BB

Flop : (23 BB, 2 players) 8h 2h 8c
Hero bets 14 BB, CO calls 14 BB

Turn : (51 BB, 2 players) Ad
Hero checks, CO bets 20 BB, Hero calls 20 BB

River : (91 BB, 2 players) Jh
Hero checks, CO bets 48 BB, Hero folds
 
K

KFlint

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 14, 2016
Total posts
180
Chips
0
Hard to fold to this sizing on the turn but it's weighted toward value, he doesn't look for a fold imo. He can easily float the flop with an ace (with nut flush draw or not). I expect to lose this hand almost always so don't think a nitty fold on the turn is bad because OOP he will most likely bet river and force you to fold a pretty face up hand. Regarding bluffing turn, it's better than calling imo you will fold some pairs, but OOP, if he calls, you basically have to give up.

There are no great options here.
 
Last edited:
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
Spent Alternative Line #1:
Could also consider turning your hand into a rebluff on the river if villain is bluffy & floaty. It's a great board for him to float and barrel, but he has more flushes in his range. I do too many bluffs like this tho.

Alternative Line #2:
Call preflop. We're super deep, and KK usually only makes 1 pair. So by calling we make it less likely our stack is threatened, and we have a bluffy opponent in stealing position that will likely bluff too much.

Could also check/fold the turn or call the river. His range is pretty much Ax, flushes, and hands like 99 or 9T that he floated the flop with. 3:1 is a tempting size.
 
Alucard

Alucard

Santoryu
Silver Level
Joined
May 7, 2017
Total posts
3,235
Chips
0
Spent Alternative Line #1:
Could also consider turning your hand into a rebluff on the river if villain is bluffy & floaty. It's a great board for him to float and barrel, but he has more flushes in his range. I do too many bluffs like this tho.

Alternative Line #2:
Call preflop. We're super deep, and KK usually only makes 1 pair. So by calling we make it less likely our stack is threatened, and we have a bluffy opponent in stealing position that will likely bluff too much.

Could also check/fold the turn or call the river. His range is pretty much Ax, flushes, and hands like 99 or 9T that he floated the flop with. 3:1 is a tempting size.

Line 1 - Pretty damn expensive. i'm spending almost 200-300BB if I'm gonna bluff the river

Line 2 - My intention was to play for max value. Would have a hard time flatting this where both are pretty deep

Thanks
 
Alucard

Alucard

Santoryu
Silver Level
Joined
May 7, 2017
Total posts
3,235
Chips
0
Hard to fold to this sizing on the turn but it's weighted toward value, he doesn't look for a fold imo. He can easily float the flop with an ace (with nut flush draw or not). I expect to lose this hand almost always so don't think a nitty fold on the turn is bad because OOP he will most likely bet river and force you to fold a pretty face up hand. Regarding bluffing turn, it's better than calling imo you will fold some pairs, but OOP, if he calls, you basically have to give up.

There are no great options here.

Yeah my thought process was similar.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
Line 2 - My intention was to play for max value. Would have a hard time flatting this where both are pretty deep
The value of your dominating preflop equity matters so much less 200+ deep. And even in a 3bet pot, the SPR will still be unfavorable for stacking an overpair. 3betting doesnt accomplish that much unless you think he 4bets too much.
 
B

braveslice

Pull-ups!
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Total posts
1,988
Chips
0
For me it looked totally standard. Trying to force a win on this board, and also so deep, just sounds too complicated. I don’t mind check/call on the turn, many Ax hands will check generally here for pot control and again generally those Ax hands will never fold anymore on the river thus river is at least partly defended.


Max value is quite complicated issue, I don’t mind 3bet, but I hope you had a plan how to handle 4bet before you 3betted. I totally understand what c9 is saying.
 
Keith_MM

Keith_MM

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 13, 2013
Total posts
1,334
Awards
1
Chips
3
isn't this a problem with playing zoom though , randomly against super deep stacks and really short stacks at the same time.On a regular table , if you don't fancy playing deep and not really studied the implications that it has you can switch tables . Here you can have the short stacks shoving and putting you in a difficult spot when you consider whether the large stacks will reshoveand if you are willing to risk 250bb pre.
 
B

braveslice

Pull-ups!
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Total posts
1,988
Chips
0
On the contrary resetting stack to 100bb takes around 10 sec in zoom, making it much easier than in regular.
 
K

KFlint

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 14, 2016
Total posts
180
Chips
0
Indeed, and you can reload your time bank just as easily. I don't like to play deep on zoom with limited info.
 
TheBigFinn

TheBigFinn

Visionary
Bronze Level
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Total posts
586
Awards
2
Chips
0
I 3-bet KK in the SB and bet the flop. Villain is unlikely to have an 8 or a 3, but with a flush draw one has to C-bet as Hero does. The Ace on the turn is bad. There are a lot of Aces in Villain's range. He knows it you know it. If Villain is bold, he'll bluff the river even if he doesn't have it.

I think you have to bet fold the turn. Checking invites the bluff, while betting has to eliminate Villain's thoughts of bluffing. If he calls and the flush draw comes in I think you your check fold is the right choice.
 
Top