$5 NLHE 6-max: Kings facing a flop donk 4 way & a turn shove

Alucard

Alucard

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Donk = 0/11
AF=1
Turn AF = 6
Turn bet - 6/23

pokerstars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

Hero (UTG): 100 BB
CO: 100 BB (VPIP: 15.91, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 5.41, hands: 92)
BTN: 71.6 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
SB: 202 BB (VPIP: 25.76, PFR: 22.73, 3Bet Preflop: 24.00, Hands: 68)
BB: 85.4 BB (VPIP: 27.83, PFR: 15.71, 3Bet Preflop: 5.00, Hands: 219)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Kc Ks
Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, BTN calls 3 BB, SB calls 2.6 BB, BB calls 2 BB

Flop : (12 BB, 4 players) Th 6c 4h
SB checks, BB bets 7.8 BB, Hero calls 7.8 BB, fold, fold

Turn : (27.6 BB, 2 players) 3c
BB bets 74.6 BB and is all-in,

What's V's donking range on a 4way flop & overbet shoving range?I cannot put him on much FDs with his stats so I'm guessing mostly Sets(even Ts) & perhaps some overpair he thought of going wild like Js or even Qs. Could be AT as well
 
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braveslice

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Seems reasonable range imo, but maybe not AT anymore on the turn. Surely he has few combos other stuff too.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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I can't see how JJ or QQ would flat call to close a 4-way pot. They'd have to be incredibly timid. His 5% 3-bet rate says that's not the case.

His donk/overshove range would be something like 66, 44, TT, big draws, 64s and maybe T6s. 7h5h is a pretty good guess. He called in the BB in a 4-way pot, his range is pretty wide.

Seems like a snap-fold on the turn. Your opponents paid nothing to see this flop, and now one wants all the money in badly.

This might be results oriented, but I make it 4-5 BB preflop. The fish OTB isn't caring.
 
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braveslice

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c9h13no3: ” This might be results oriented, but I make it 4-5 BB preflop. The fish OTB isn't caring.”

+1

c9h13no3: “I can't see how JJ or QQ would flat call to close a 4-way pot.”

Stat say he is not that much knowledgeable about aggression that you could use too much standard play assumptions.

The things you mentioned are probably in opposite meaning to him when considering 3betting pre. Obviously not always but enough to be in the range. Also facing UTG open, seeing flop cheap from blinds and being out of position are all reason for some players just flat, in addition to multiway pot and over aggression. We don’t know if villain is like this, but there is nothing in the stats that would indicate differently so we need to keep them partly in the range imo. Personally in simulation I would use JJ to represent {JJ+}, that is easy to type.
 
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Ducky7

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I think it is an error to fold here, I imagine he would show up with a lot of combo draws. Maybe the occasional set which is sad but we can't really do anything about that
 
TheBigFinn

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I agree with crh13 and make the preflop bet larger, but doubt 4BB would make much difference in the play once button calls. The low flop seems to hit Villain's range harder than Hero's given Hero's open UTG and Villain's call. The donk bet confuses me. Wouldn't trips or a flush draw check to the preflop raiser? Seems the choice to re-raise or call the flop is close. Calling keeps the pot smaller and implies Hero is just trying to get his over pair to the river and doesn't want to play for stacks. If Hero re-raises and then sees the AI, I'd fold.
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As played Villain's 2X over shove is very odd. She is either trying to appear hyper aggressive going for the fold or has a monster. Hero's call on the flop under reps his hand. Not much else to go on. Its a coin flip.

In an on-line nickle game, I'd default to the "She has it, until proven other wise strategy." Her numbers aren't hyper aggressive and unless there's history. I'd let it go.
 
Alucard

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I think it is an error to fold here, I imagine he would show up with a lot of combo draws. Maybe the occasional set which is sad but we can't really do anything about that


Well gotta listen to the guy who won over 200k this week :p Even though it's very contradictory to all the others have said :D
 
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