$5 NLHE 6-max: K9s with made straight and straight/straight flush draw

dg1267

dg1267

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$5 NL HE 6-max: K9s with made straight and straight/straight flush draw

My HEM is down due to me having to reformat my computer and they can't seem to find a way for SP3 to quit wreaking havoc. So, you'll have to do this without any stats.

This guy had been playing pretty loose, I'd say around 35/20 or so. He limps so I limp behind hoping to see the flop cheap.


full tilt poker Game #17181398740: Table Reader (6 max) - $0.02/$0.05 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:21:03 ET - 2009/12/29
Seat 1: Pharrell Z ($8.60)
Seat 2: mcmerb ($8.51)
Seat 3: Ajani V ($6.63)
Seat 4: dg1267 ($5.51)
Seat 5: Addi Adriano ($4.82)
Seat 6: IamTheCaptin ($4.72)
IamTheCaptin posts the small blind of $0.02
Pharrell Z posts the big blind of $0.05
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to dg1267 [9s Ks]
mcmerb calls $0.05
dg1267 calls $0.05
Addi Adriano folds
IamTheCaptin calls $0.03
Pharrell Z checks
*** FLOP *** [Js Qc Ts]
IamTheCaptin checks
Pharrell Z has 15 seconds left to act
Pharrell Z checks
mcmerb bets $0.25
dg1267 ???
 
ChuckTs

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you have the effective nuts (with a redraw) since most people raise AK pf, so we're obviously never folding.

Drawy board, someone's showing interest, just raise whatever you think he'll call. In general on drawy boards, bigger is better with a made hand you want to build the pot with.
 
S93

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I rahter just fold prf here since where not really gonna make a great hand alot that often.

If we had K9o here id probably make it like .80-1$ but since we have the basic nuts with a second nut draw i kinda like raising a litle smaller, something like .65-.75.
I think slowplaying this flop would be horrible since if villain doesnt have a hand good enough to call a raise with now your not geting alot more out of him since any overcard puts 4to straight on the board so just raise it up imo.


Also could u please use a converter in the future? :).
I like this one the best http://www.stoxpoker.com/pokertools/handconverter but there are plenty of others u can use.
 
dg1267

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Sorry about not using a converter. I looked for the CC one but couldn't find it. Every time I look for it I can't find it (that's what she said). :eek:

But anyway... Okay, so I basically raised what you said to Sindri. Here's what happened.


--------------------
HAND 1
--------------------

$0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
Poker Tools by Stoxpoker - Hand Details


BB: $8.60 (172 bb)
MP: $8.51 (170.2 bb)
Hero (CO): $5.51 (110.2 bb)
BTN: $4.82 (96.4 bb)
SB: $4.72 (94.4 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with 9:spade: K:spade:
MP calls $0.05, Hero calls $0.05, BTN folds, SB completes, BB checks

Flop: ($0.20) J:spade: Q:club: T:spade: (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP bets $0.25, Hero raises to $0.75, 2 folds, MP raises to $2.45, Hero ???

Every instinct tells me to ship it all in here (don't want to fold this)... what do you guys think?
 
Munchrs

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In general i dont really like the pre flop play, but because of stack sizes i dont hate it either. Basically I can see calling as being a viable option here simply because the implied odds are so huge we stand to gain alot. But i am always been one who likes to punish the limpers. If you raise this up to say 5 blinds pre you pretty much force your opponent to define his relative hand strength, plus being the pre flop raiser means that we can Cbet almost 100% of boards and have a decent shot of taking the pot down about 55% of the time in my expierence(assuming your read of 35/20 is relatively accurate). Another vote for raising pre is that by raising you are creating a smaller pot to stack ratio which means that when you do hit a monster flop such as you did in this hand it will be easier for you to get the money in and you will be able to get all the money in more often than when you just call behind and have a much larger pot to stack ratio.

I just think that by not raising preflop you have made this a much harder had to extract maximum value from as 90% of the time peole expect the pre flop aggressor to stay aggressive and therefor assign the pre flop raiser a wider flop betting range. Not entirely sure as to how applicable to this particular villian this is but something to keep in mind non the less.

If we had K9o here id probably make it like .80-1$ but since we have the basic nuts with a second nut draw i kinda like raising a litle smaller, something like .65-.75.
I think slowplaying this flop would be horrible since if villain doesnt have a hand good enough to call a raise with now your not geting alot more out of him since any overcard puts 4to straight on the board so just raise it up imo.

i agree 100% with this.
 
S93

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Sorry about not using a converter. I looked for the CC one but couldn't find it. Every time I look for it I can't find it (that's what she said). :eek:

But anyway... Okay, so I basically raised what you said to Sindri. Here's what happened.


--------------------
HAND 1
--------------------

$0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
Poker Tools by Stoxpoker - Hand Details


BB: $8.60 (172 bb)
MP: $8.51 (170.2 bb)
Hero (CO): $5.51 (110.2 bb)
BTN: $4.82 (96.4 bb)
SB: $4.72 (94.4 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with 9 K
MP calls $0.05, Hero calls $0.05, BTN folds, SB completes, BB checks

Flop: ($0.20) J Q T (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP bets $0.25, Hero raises to $0.75, 2 folds, MP raises to $2.45, Hero ???

Every instinct tells me to ship it all in here (don't want to fold this)... what do you guys think?
You are beat by one hand and that hand is in his range almost never(how often do u see some on open limp with AK?).
He is gonna have JT,QJ,QT,Q9,QK,89,SS,TT ect ect a gazilion times more often then AK.
So i say hollywood for a few sec and then jam, remeber to fist pump when he calls.

Sorry about not using a converter. I looked for the CC one but couldn't find it. Every time I look for it I can't find it (that's what she said). :eek:
The CC convertor was, unfortunetly, complete junk :(.
I think Nick and the mods scrapped it.
 
dg1267

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This is gonna be quite interesting when the results are posted. I'll wait a couple of hours to see if Chuck want's to add anything then I'll post it.

btw, Munchrs, this is usually an easy fold for me. I wouldn't raise this hand in this position hardly ever. Why I limped in, I still don't know. But I'm definitely not raising here... just not my style. But I see your point.
 
ChuckTs

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well i don't see what's changed. We still have the nuts, he's showing interest, people don't often bluff raise these boards (esp in limped pots)...so get it in...not much to it :)
 
WVHillbilly

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I raise this preflop against a player this bad almost always. He's just going to call and play fit or fold so often postflop that you're going to make a lot of $$ raising it. Not to mention K9 does fairly well against his range.

As played just jam over his flop 3bet. If you give him a ultra narrow calling range of TT+/AK you're still a 63% favorite. Add in all the 2 pair and pair + draw combos that are actually more likely and you're crushing.

Not getting it in here would be criminal.
 
bgomez89

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Yep, I'm definitely shoving after his 3bet. Should be a nice win for you
 
Munchrs

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This is gonna be quite interesting when the results are posted. I'll wait a couple of hours to see if Chuck want's to add anything then I'll post it.

btw, Munchrs, this is usually an easy fold for me. I wouldn't raise this hand in this position hardly ever. Why I limped in, I still don't know. But I'm definitely not raising here... just not my style. But I see your point.

yea raising or folding > calling

not really much to it now just jam. Hes obv gonna wake up with AK now, probably would have re raised us pre flop with it as limp re raising is how donks like o value town there monsters.
 
dg1267

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Well, here's the rest of it. He did show up with AK. Not sure why there wasn't a raise here, but it was his mistake for letting me hang in there long enough to think I was good. Thanks for the review, and do you all think I should be playing K9s more often from late position in these situations? I'll usually just toss it.


--------------------
HAND 1
--------------------

$0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
Poker Tools by Stoxpoker - Hand Details


BB: $8.60 (172 bb)
MP: $8.51 (170.2 bb)
Hero (CO): $5.51 (110.2 bb)
BTN: $4.82 (96.4 bb)
SB: $4.72 (94.4 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with 9:spade: K:spade:
MP calls $0.05, Hero calls $0.05, BTN folds, SB completes, BB checks

Flop: ($0.20) J:spade: Q:club: T:spade: (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP bets $0.25, Hero raises to $0.75, 2 folds, MP raises to $2.45, Hero raises to $5.46 and is all-in, MP calls $3.01

Turn: ($11.12) Q:spade: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($11.12) 3:club: (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results:[spoil] $11.12 pot ($0.74 rake)
Final Board: J:spade: Q:club: T:spade: Q:spade: 3:club:
MP showed A:spade: K:club: (a straight, Ten to Ace) and lost (-$5.51 net)
Hero showed 9:spade: K:spade: (a straight flush, Nine to King) and won $10.38 ($4.87 net)
[/spoil]
 
Munchrs

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yea on the BTN/CO i will just raise limpers a ton with a very wide range as limpers generally want a cheap flop and play fit or fold afterwards so we get heaps of value in raising and cbetting aswell as folding out the extra dead money in the pot preflop
 
S93

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yea on the BTN/CO i will just raise limpers a ton with a very wide range as limpers generally want a cheap flop and play fit or fold afterwards so we get heaps of value in raising and cbetting aswell as folding out the extra dead money in the pot preflop
+1
Iso raising limpers with K9s is fine(but since when where iso raising our hand doesnt really matter that much since where mostly just looking to take it down prf or with a cbet, obvs having a hand that has ok equity cant hurt though ;)), i still dont like limping with it since where just not gonna hit flops like this that often, more often when we actualy flop something its gonna be middle pair with the 9 or a bad TP where we have to worry about beeing outkicked and thats not even going into how hard it is to get stacks in in a limped pot unless its a cooler so we are gonna strugle to get alot of value when we do get a flop like this.

Or to put it in simple terms, Every time u limp baby kittens die! :D
Basicly u want 2 out 3 things to continue with a hand(like all rules there are exceptions, like set mining).
Inititive,beeing the prf raiser/3bettor-We dont have it here.
Position- We have it.
A good hand- We dont have it.
There is nothing u can do about your position or the hand your dealt but u can allways take the initive :).

As for him showing up with AK, it doesnt really matter, he is gonna have JT or 89 way more often so folding when where beat by 12(dicounted) combos of AK when we beat circa 84562165 of his other possible combos would be pretty horrid imo.
 
dg1267

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That's a great way to put it, Sindri. And I don't even like cats, but I still don't want baby kittens to die.:(

I like the three rules idea as well. I know that's what I'm thinking about most of the time, but to put it in words kinda sank it in a little deeper.

Thanks all for the review.:D
 
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