$5 NLHE 6-max: Is this incorrect to call down with the current pot odds?

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RamdeeBen

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I definitely put them on a high pocket pair so you might say i shouldn't of called a re-raise with but want to know was this incorrect for me to call down with in the long run?


Poker Stars - $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em (6 players)
Poker Stars Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com

SB: $9.08
BB: $2.07
UTG: $4.03
MP: $4.73
CO: $9.66
BTN Hero: $5

Pre-flop: ($0.07) Hero is BTN and dealt :9d4: :8c4:
UTG calls $0.05, 2 folds, Hero raises $0.15, 2 folds, UTG raises $0.20, Hero calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.57) :10c4: :7s4: :5d4: (2 players)
UTG bets $0.25, Hero calls $0.25

Turn: ($1.07) :10c4: :7s4: :5d4: :4c4: (2 players)
UTG bets $0.40, Hero calls $0.40

River: ($1.87) :10c4: :7s4: :5d4: :4c4: :2d4: (2 players)
UTG bets $0.50, Hero folds, UTG returned $0.50

Final Pot: $1.87

Showdown:
BTN mucks his hand
Outcome: UTG wins $1.78
 
serendipity

serendipity

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OK, I'll take a stab since nobody has responded yet, but I am by no means a cash game player.

I don't think the re-raise is your problem here. It cost you $0.10 to call with $0.47 in the pot, so you are nearly 5:1 here. Your problem is the initial raise with the UTG limper and 2 players still behind you in the hand. This is a pre-flop fold, but since you raised 3BB, I see no problem with calling the min re-raise.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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I kinda want to raise the turn, am I insane?
 
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baudib1

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I kinda want to raise the turn, am I insane?

it's okish, his line doesn't look very strong, does it? unless this is how he plays AA. I'd probably call river if we make a pair.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Yeah, but a lot of fish at these stakes just value bet very small because they don't want you to go away. He's already bet the flop & turn twice, so his range does have less air in it.

So idk, most villains don't barrel AK twice at these stakes (or even c-bet with it). They're just weak-tight about their aces getting cracked or are paranoid about you folding. So they bet smaller. Idk, I think a bluff-raise on the turn probably isn't the best play, but its just what popped into my head when I saw his small turn bet.

EDIT - I also didn't see that villain limp/3-bet pre. After seeing that, I deffo just call down and try to make a big hand.
 
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ComplexPlaya

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Why raise the turn? Raise the flop if you want to when your equity is strongest. And if he just calls and check to you to "slow play" or whatever then you get a showdown for about the same price you did, with the added benefit of fold equity on the flop.

But only raise if you think you have fold equity, if you don't have much calling is the best play. Also if he's likely to pay you off when you hit you're better off drawing than taking the pot on the flop as well...
 
R

RamdeeBen

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Thanks for the replies guys. He most definitely put him on a high pocket pair. I did consider raising the flop or maybe the turn but the problem with this at this level I've noticed, if I just raised him I'm quite sure he would be shoving and I'd have to fold then as he wouldn't want any more danger cards for his top pair. I think he would think "ok, he's caught part of the board if he raises me I'm going to shove him"

I've tried this tactic before with no success. A re-raise tends to then doesn't get re-raised 3 x it gets shoved more times than not.

So in general anyway you think I played the hand ok?

ps: About the limper UTG, I raised on the button as I thought he would fold and maybe had suited connectors at this point and thought I'd get the blinds and his 5cets. When he re-raised it's then I realise I'm probs up against a good pair as it was a bit suspicious. Unless of course he thought I was on a steal I've no idea..
 
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RamdeeBen

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OK, I'll take a stab since nobody has responded yet, but I am by no means a cash game player.

I don't think the re-raise is your problem here. It cost you $0.10 to call with $0.47 in the pot, so you are nearly 5:1 here. Your problem is the initial raise with the UTG limper and 2 players still behind you in the hand. This is a pre-flop fold, but since you raised 3BB, I see no problem with calling the min re-raise.

Well, the table was quite tightish and I love playing in position with suited cards. I'm not really folding connected/suited on the button. I will often put in a raise if there's been no action, do you not think this is profitable? If not then what hands should I be raising on the button if theres been no action prior to me at 6 max. I thought this was quite a standard play?
 
serendipity

serendipity

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But your cards aren't suited. I am new to cash, so I would fold 8 9 off after the UTG limp, but perhaps I'm playing it wrong? And I think if you were gonna try you might have raised a bit more than 3BB with a limper already in?
 
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RamdeeBen

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But your cards aren't suited. I am new to cash, so I would fold 8 9 off after the UTG limp, but perhaps I'm playing it wrong? And I think if you were gonna try you might have raised a bit more than 3BB with a limper already in?

Yeah they aren't suited but 6max I/we can't wait for a,k/pocket queens etc to raise the button. Besides which a limp "usually" signifies a weak hand, maybe like my hand not much stronger. Of course when I'm re-raised I think he's a decent hand.

To be honest, the blinds was tight so I knew they would folding anything that isn't premium against me out of position. As for the limper, I'm comfortable letting them call my raise out of position as I don't believe they are ahead and if they are not by much. I wouldn't be surprised if it was 6,7,8,9,10,J etc hands.

I've always been taught to punish limpers especially if they are out of position. ie: Preflop aggressor, if they call then play the flop aggressive. If they miss, which chances are they will do then I take down the pot.

Maybe WVHBilly or Stu could give some insight and clear up on some of what's being said including mine comments.

I'd just like to know if I played it bad,ok,good or as good as I could of and weather or not it was profitable.
 
WVHillbilly

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I think it's fine as played. Not sure I understand the preflop action though (I think it may be a convertor issue)?

UTG calls $0.05, 2 folds, Hero raises $0.15, 2 folds, UTG raises $0.20, Hero calls $0.10

He called UTG, you raised to .20 right? So then he had to make it at least .25 for you to call .10 or did he raise to .40??? Either way his hand looks like a big pair limp/raise preflop and with position and the OESD I think calling 2 streets is probably best because you're pretty likely to get paid off if you hit.
 
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RamdeeBen

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I think it's fine as played. Not sure I understand the preflop action though (I think it may be a convertor issue)?

UTG calls $0.05, 2 folds, Hero raises $0.15, 2 folds, UTG raises $0.20, Hero calls $0.10

He called UTG, you raised to .20 right? So then he had to make it at least .25 for you to call .10 or did he raise to .40??? Either way his hand looks like a big pair limp/raise preflop and with position and the OESD I think calling 2 streets is probably best because you're pretty likely to get paid off if you hit.

Yeah must be, can't remember exactly what it was but it was definietly 10 more cents to call. I think it should of said "calls 10c?" as opposed to £5c"

And Yeh he just min raised me I definitely wouldn't of called a 40cent raise, it cost another 10cents to make the call that's when alarm bells went off and he made it easy to guess what he likely had hence the calling down if the flop was good enough to carry on it was definitely worth the extra 10 cents.

Then the flop came so I decided if I was getting good odds and he did indeed have high pocket pair and like you say I hit, he would most likely stack off. That's why I was seeing if that was ok play in position and implied odds is that correct? was worth calling down?

Also did he play it incorrectly ? What I mean by that, he most likely wanted me to call with whatever I had so min raised but say roles are reversed would I raise 3x the amount whats in the pot for example making it un profitable for him to make the call?

Just like to see it from both points of view, I think if anything I played the hand better than he did considering I have position. Just more so to work on my game so I know how to play out particular hands in current situations like that with position as a factor. I was also tempted to re-raise him on the flop but I think he might of shoved it so would of been unprofitable? Maybe against a better player he might of folded a raise or considered putting down his pocket pair, I just had this feeling he was one of those sort of players who is willing to stack of with a high pocket pair regardless of what the board shows.

Cheers.
 
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ben_rhyno

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I tend to agree with CP here in i would like to raise the flop, but I don't mind calling down as it seems likely you get paid off when you hit
 
R

RamdeeBen

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I tend to agree with CP here in i would like to raise the flop, but I don't mind calling down as it seems likely you get paid off when you hit

Yea, was very tempted to but I was quite sure he would be shoving on me which would of meant me folding so I didn't really want to risk a raise. I'm guessing a call of a shove would of been daft..
 
ben_rhyno

ben_rhyno

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Yeh if you make a pot sized raise to 70c and he shoves you can't call. If he calls, you will probably get to the river free and make your hand 32-35% of the time. He also may fold and you take down the pot there which is a good result
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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I tend to agree with CP here in i would like to raise the flop, but I don't mind calling down as it seems likely you get paid off when you hit
The problem is that if we've read his hand correctly as a big pair he's never folding or flatting. All raising accomplishes is throwing money away because he's going to raise and we have to fold.
 
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