$5 NLHE 6-max: Can I fold Kings pre here?

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MattJM68

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Though this result was great for me, I think I played it wrong. Normally I would never consider folding Kings pre, but im well over 300bb deep. As I played this I turned to my housemate and said im raising to $5 and folding to the shove, before saying f*** it and calling the shove, knowing he had aces.


Basically my question is, at this level on Stars, can you ever justify folding kings pre??




PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4


CO: 138.4 BB (VPIP: 31.25, PFR: 26.04, 3Bet Preflop: 9.52, hands: 98)
Hero (BTN): 343.8 BB
SB: 325.4 BB (VPIP: 18.75, PFR: 15.00, 3Bet Preflop: 15.38, Hands: 81)
BB: 128.6 BB (VPIP: 23.53, PFR: 15.07, 3Bet Preflop: 0.93, Hands: 275)
UTG: 132.8 BB (VPIP: 63.53, PFR: 43.53, 3Bet Preflop: 35.71, Hands: 86)
MP: 100 BB (VPIP: 15.38, PFR: 11.54, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 79)


SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB


Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K:spade: K:club:


UTG raises to 2 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 12 BB, SB raises to 41.6 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 110 BB, SB raises to 325.4 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 215.4 BB


Flop: (653.8 BB, 2 players) 7:club: 9:club: 5:club:


Turn: (653.8 BB, 2 players) 6:club:


River: (653.8 BB, 2 players) 6:heart:


[spoil]SB shows A:heart: A:spade: (Two Pair, Aces and Sixes)
(Pre 82%, Flop 57%, Turn 1%)
Hero shows K:spade: K:club: (Flush, King High)
(Pre 18%, Flop 43%, Turn 99%)
Hero wins 633.8 BB
[/spoil]
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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1) Hide the results.2) You’re on the right track, 300 bb’s deep against a reggy player is the one limited spot to be thinking about folding pre.


I’m leaning towards calling the 4-bet with position. Villain is an aggressive 3-bettor, and that may extend to 4-bets as well. So let’s keep some of his bluff range in. And I bet we have more of a postflop edge than preflop 300 deep.
 
S

Sidetracked

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There might be a time when folding KK pf is right, but this player doesn't have the nitty stats that I would need to see in order to do it.
 
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dpoole71

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Its hard to ever let cowboys go preflop
 
WhereDidMyEVGo

WhereDidMyEVGo

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I just don't think I have that fold in me. Certainly not in that game.
 
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mikeisthebestever

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Let me share with you two hands I played at my local casino the other night. I was playing 1/2 waiting for my 2/5 seat.

I pick up AA in the straddle.
Table folds around to the button who opens for 12$, blinds fold.
I choose to flat here because I want to CONTINUE to get more value from him post flop and not fold out all of his mediocre late position holdings.
Flop comes K 7 4 rainbow.
I check. He bets 20$, and again I call, not wanting to fold out his bluffs and/or weak holdings.
Turn is a 10 bringing backdoor flush draw.
I check again, assuming that if he bets again he has made a pair, most likely K or 10, possible a middle pocket pair.
He bets 45$, I raise to 120. He calls.
River is a 5, flush does not come in.
I bet 140. He calls. I show my hand, he tables KQ and I scoop a decent pot.


This hand illustrates the importance of allowing your opponent to continue with their weaker hands. If I 3-bet this pot he is going to fold preflop the vast majority of the time and I only make 12$.


In contrast I was in this hand.


MP cold opens to 22$. I have AJ suited. I fold. Entire table folds. With a great big smile on his face this gentlemen tables his pocket aces and scoops his 3$ pot.


This hand illustrates the stupidity of folding out all hands worse than yours. Poker is about value, this guy got none.


For the reasons above, your hand is a clear flat of the 4-bet. You need to keep your opponent's weaker hands and bluffs in, so that you can extract value on later streets. Otherwise, similarly to what happened, you fold out all worse hands and get your money in when you are behind.


Im going to be honest, I totally forgot what this post was about by the time I got to the end.. LOL.. I hope something I said was helpful, Im going to bed!
 
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MattJM68

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I get what you mean and often flat aces as they rarely flop poorly, but am less confident in allowing people to see a flop 'cheaply' with QQ/KK as an A kills your hand so often. Maybe it's better in the long run with the added value gained compared to the times you have to fold on an A high flop, will have to try it for a while and see how it goes.
 
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MattJM68

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That was the deciding factor, at this level i've seen people take this line with 73o, especially late at night, so I reluctantly called.
 
Nathan Williams

Nathan Williams

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For 300bb, yes you can definitely get away from KK pre.

I would just call the 4Bet in this hand. This keeps his bluffing range as wide as possible. When you 5Bet it basically turns your hand face up and allows him to play perfectly against you.
 
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