$5 NLHE 6-max: I didn't know what to do with my jacks..

Can someone tell me how I should of played this hand?? It's a situation I get into numerous times..

How do you play your jacks in position like this? I'm beginning to think maybe I should of put another raise in pre-flop and if he shipped it I could of folded to save this post flop crap every time! Always the same old..

I just couldn't not put him on anything worse just the way he has recently played hands too, seems quite a tight player..

Good/bad fold? Was I correct in thinking I should of just re-raised preflop again and see if he pushed? If he did push by the way, do you fold jacks almost all the time?

I was kind of hoping or thinking that if he had A,K he would play the same obviously same with A,Q. Then I thought well if he had A,K he woulden't of fired again after the action he got preflop and postflop? Must of put me on something?

Poker Stars - $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em (5 players)
Poker Stars Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com

SB: $7.22
BB: $7.56
UTG: $9.06
CO: $5.58
BTN Hero: $5.07

Pre-flop: ($0.07) Hero is BTN and dealt
2 folds, Hero raises $0.15, SB raises $0.43, BB folds, Hero calls $0.30

Flop: ($0.95) (2 players)
SB bets $0.60, Hero calls $0.60

Turn: ($2.15) (2 players)
SB bets $1.50, Hero folds, SB returned $1.50

I often don't like the call IP with the JJ here. I think for me its either a 4bet to $1.10 or a fold depending on villians stats. If effective stats were quite small it could could be shove territory... it depends.

Either way calling the C-bet is pretty bad IMO. I would even prefer a hefty raise tho anything half decent in this spot would leave you commited.

Hope this helps.

I kind I guessed it should of been played like that. Either put in a substantial raise preflop - if shoved I can most often guess I'm beat. If I do call the raise pre flop which is probably a mistake with jacks then just calling the post flop was a terrible play right? I should either re raise, calling is often weak and I do hate doing it. Just sometimes....don't know if I'm up against middle pair as people will play this just as strong as a higher pair..

So the play which I thought anyway after I played the hand and checked through the hand again is either re-raise of fold and basically just flat calling is far to weak?

You need to be willing to get it in with JJ here 100%. It's BTN v blind and he'll have lots in his 3bet range that you do really well against. So 4bet but NEVER fold in this spot. Is this a 6-max or FR table?

WVHillbilly said:

You need to be willing to get it in with JJ here 100%. It's BTN v blind and he'll have lots in his 3bet range that you do really well against. So 4bet but NEVER fold in this spot. Is this a 6-max or FR table?

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Thanks Billy. It's 6max which made me think even more the play was bad. So you think shoving pre-flop against blinds with jacks and higher if I'm raised from a blind is the optimal play (in 6max)?

Also side note, should I be willing to get it all-in with A,K ? There's been a few times where I've got it in bad vs Aces and other times just vs middle or upto queens. I often find myself flat calling with A,K sometimes which I then check fold - I'm guessing this is bad play again if I don't hit the board in fear of me being up against any pair at this point.

WVHillbilly said:

You need to be willing to get it in with JJ here 100%. It's BTN v blind and he'll have lots in his 3bet range that you do really well against. So 4bet but NEVER fold in this spot. Is this a 6-max or FR table?

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I wouldn't say that at 5NL

Some players will be 3betting a wide range against BTN openers, others will be simply 3betting 3%

You need to look at stats and see which type it is.

Higher levels .. everyone knows they can 3bet wide against BTN opens so its a no brainer, but remember most people at 5NL haven got a clue.

So dont assume this is a standard wide range, you still need to check.

Stu_Ungar said:

I wouldn't say that at 5NL

Some players will be 3betting a wide range against BTN openers, others will be simply 3betting 3%

You need to look at stats and see which type it is.

Higher levels .. everyone knows they can 3bet wide against BTN opens so its a no brainer, but remember most people at 5NL haven got a clue.

So dont assume this is a standard wide range, you still need to check.

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I know this might sound ridiculous but when I watch mid/high stake players at 6 max they seem far more looser than at 5nl. I think with my jacks I'd of been more inclined to ship it if this was mid/high stakes. I know this sounds daft and it sounds like im saying "the higher the limits the more they respect your raises" but I see far more loose action at higher stakes even though I've never actually played at such limits..maybe I'm wrong..but they see far more aggresive as the limits get higher and aren't scared to get it in with just hitting the board..

Stu_Ungar said:

I wouldn't say that at 5NL

Some players will be 3betting a wide range against BTN openers, others will be simply 3betting 3%

You need to look at stats and see which type it is.

Higher levels .. everyone knows they can 3bet wide against BTN opens so its a no brainer, but remember most people at 5NL haven got a clue.

So dont assume this is a standard wide range, you still need to check.

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I'd look at their 3bet vs Steal stat but as a general rule I don't think you can go wrong with getting it in with JJ at a 5-handed 6-max table Btn v blind.

And yes ramdeebam 4bettting AK in this same situation should be the rule unless you have a strong reason to make an exception.

Higher stakes are looser.. they play properly!

At micros there are a lot of nits, expecially when it comes to 3betting. What they havent figured out is

1.) they can steal more
2.) they are extremly exploitable.. the easiest way to exploit a nit is to fold! or call for cheap, make then nuts and stack them!.. but people dont like folding so then nits are able to get action despite the fact that the exploit is to fold against them.

The problem with 4betting a nit with JJ is you are perhaps slightly ahead of his 3bet range but way behind the range he dosent fold to 4 bets.

ramdeebam said:

I know this might sound ridiculous but when I watch mid/high stake players at 6 max they seem far more looser than at 5nl. I think with my jacks I'd of been more inclined to ship it if this was mid/high stakes. I know this sounds daft and it sounds like im saying "the higher the limits the more they respect your raises" but I see far more loose action at higher stakes even though I've never actually played at such limits..maybe I'm wrong..but they see far more aggresive as the limits get higher and aren't scared to get it in with just hitting the board..

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No your def. not imagining it the aggression levels go up with every limit and you HAVE to be willing to get it in lighter in certain spots. Ask anyone at say 25nl 6-max and higher and they're probably talking about fistpumping if they get all-in in this spot with JJ.

I had a guy with decent enough stats (18/15) 5-bet shove over my 4bet last night with 68s (this was 100nl FR btw). It's not the rule but it def. happens with more frequency as you move up.

WVHillbilly said:

I'd look at their 3bet vs Steal stat but as a general rule I don't think you can go wrong with getting it in with JJ at a 5-handed 6-max table Btn v blind.
.

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Im 100% certain you can go wrong at 5NL because there are a lot of players who dont 3bet wide and there are a lot who will fold to a 4bet.

If his range for not folding tp a 4bet is AA,KK,QQ and AK your screwed because you are behind his not folding range and his 3bet range can be too narrow to make up for that via fold equity.

Stu_Ungar said:

Im 100% certain you can go wrong at 5NL because there are a lot of players who dont 3bet wide and there are a lot who will fold to a 4bet.

If his range for not folding tp a 4bet is AA,KK,QQ and AK your screwed because you are behind his not folding range and his 3bet range can be too narrow to make up for that via fold equity.

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I said as a general rule, as in if everyone at 5nl was always an unknown, you'd make $$ 4bet/getting it in with JJ in this spot. Yes, you can do better by folding to the nits and 4betting the monkeys but overall it would be a winner doing it every time, I have no doubt. Lots more moneys than nits at the 6-max tables especially.

WVHillbilly said:

I had a guy with decent enough stats (18/15) 5-bet shove over my 4bet last night with 68s (this was 100nl FR btw). It's not the rule but it def. happens with more frequency as you move up.

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Obviously he has been watching videos on 5bet bluffing!

Unless he was superbad he figured his 3bet range was wide enough that you could 4bet bluff with a wide enough range that his 5bet shove would show a profit as there wasnt enough hands in your 4bet range that could call. Not that 68s is a great hand to do that with anyway as it contains no blockers and is unlikely to win by spiking a pair should you call.

Whereas 5NL an average villians 3bet range is narrow enough that 4bet bluffing can never show a profit so 5bet shoving over a range that cant contain bluffs (or shouldnt) is suicide.

Stu_Ungar said:

Obviously he has been watching videos on 5bet bluffing!

Unless he was superbad he figured his 3bet range was wide enough that you could 4bet bluff with a wide enough range that his 5bet shove would show a profit as there wasnt enough hands in your 4bet range that could call. Not that 68s is a great hand to do that with anyway as it contains no blockers and is unlikely to win by spiking a pair should you call.

Whereas 5NL an average villians 3bet range is narrow enough that 4bet bluffing can never show a profit so 5bet shoving over a range that cant contain bluffs (or shouldnt) is suicide.

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Yeah, I mean I didn't use that as an example because OMG he 5bet bluffed with 68s, it was just an example of the aggression levels you encounter sometimes as you move up. I ended up calling with AKs (same suit as he had) but he spiked a pair and I didn't improve. He had 35% equity in the actual hand and ~28% against my range for 4bet/calling there, so if he thinks I 4bet/fold enough to make it profitable (I don't cause folding sucks) his play is fine.

I think Axs would have been a better hand for him to do it with, but it shows that in 100bb games, the 4bet has to work so much.. whereas the 5bet shove can be done with a much wider range as you have both fold equity plus guaranteed SD equity... whereas with a 4bet bluff you dont get the guaranteed SD equity.

Stu_Ungar said:

I think Axs would have been a better hand for him to do it with, but it shows that in 100bb games, the 4bet has to work so much.. whereas the 5bet shove can be done with a much wider range as you have both fold equity plus guaranteed SD equity... whereas with a 4bet bluff you dont get the guaranteed SD equity.

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Axs gives him another ~2% against my range so it's not that big a deal. It helps a little due to card removal obviously but it also takes 4 combos of AK out of my range so it doesn't help as much as you might think.