$5 NLHE 6-max: Can I call here with A high

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MattJM68

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PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4


BTN: 156.6 BB (VPIP: 23.19, PFR: 13.04, 3Bet Preflop: 7.41, hands: 72)
SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 21.72, PFR: 16.29, 3Bet Preflop: 4.88, Hands: 225)
Hero (BB): 162.4 BB
UTG: 62.8 BB (VPIP: 46.88, PFR: 35.94, 3Bet Preflop: 39.29, Hands: 65)
CO: 100 BB (VPIP: 20.45, PFR: 13.64, 3Bet Preflop: 5.00, Hands: 46)


SB posts SB 0.4 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB


Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has A:diamond: 5:spade:


UTG raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 2 BB


Flop: (6.4 BB, 2 players) 6:spade: K:club: 8:spade:
Hero checks, UTG checks


Turn: (6.4 BB, 2 players) K:spade:
Hero checks, UTG bets 3 BB, Hero calls 3 BB


River: (12.4 BB, 2 players) 2:heart:
Hero checks, UTG bets 12 BB....


This villain was very reckless and I was struggling to put him on a hand. My go to when someone doesn't make sense is to call. My questions are what hands should I call here with and is this one of them? Also how can I play better against these players in the future?
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Fold pre, fold the turn. Villain is playing the hand exactly like 8x, QQ-99 if he were a reg, and fish often slow play. Make $ by value-towning these idiots.

I suppose you can call the river once you get there and the 4-flush doesn't, but the pre & turn decisions in this hand are pretty spewy.
 
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MattJM68

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Fold pre, fold the turn. Villain is playing the hand exactly like 8x,
You want me to fold A5 to a guy opening 36% (when I have to call only 2BB) who I know I can outplay postflop?
Also, why fold the turn? He would have C bet flush draws on the flop as well as K's and potentially his 8's. Seems a pretty safe turn to me. Then the river bet just makes no sense whatsoever.

QQ-99 if he were a reg,
He's not.
 
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wilywiles

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In this situation I would have tried a defensive bet on the turn. Or even the river. Let's conisider the situation. You have a maniac under the gun playing the table that way because he senses weakness. At some point you will need to stand up to him. I would suggest letting him put his money in there first. so I think the river would have been a great time to bet. Imagine if instead of allowing him to bet the 12 BB that you fired out a bet of 9 bb. If he's been raising wildly this bet will be significant enough for him to not be able to continue bluffing. You are taking the power away from his play by representing strength. The main contributor to his wild game is most likely that no one has stood up to him. Players like that slow down eventually because if they dont their chips will be gone
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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You want me to fold A5 to a guy opening 36% (when I have to call only 2BB) who I know I can outplay postflop?
Absolutely. This guy is offering you an edge by playing too many hands. All you have to do is be selective and you'll have a big edge over him just by not playing trash.

Apparently, that strategy is too complex for you, and you chose to play trash OOP.
 
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MattJM68

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Apparently, that strategy is too complex for you, and you chose to play trash OOP.

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4




River: (12.4 BB, 2 players) 2:heart:
Hero checks, UTG bets 12 BB, Hero calls 12 BB


[spoil]UTG shows Q:club: T:heart: (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 44%, Flop 26%, Turn 9%)
Hero shows A:diamond: 5:spade: (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 56%, Flop 74%, Turn 91%)
Hero wins 34.8 BB
[/spoil]
 
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MattJM68

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In this situation I would have tried a defensive bet on the turn. Or even the river. Let's conisider the situation. You have a maniac under the gun playing the table that way because he senses weakness. At some point you will need to stand up to him. I would suggest letting him put his money in there first. so I think the river would have been a great time to bet. Imagine if instead of allowing him to bet the 12 BB that you fired out a bet of 9 bb. If he's been raising wildly this bet will be significant enough for him to not be able to continue bluffing. You are taking the power away from his play by representing strength. The main contributor to his wild game is most likely that no one has stood up to him. Players like that slow down eventually because if they dont their chips will be gone

I get your point, but what am i representing when I bet the river? An 8 that doesn't want to see a 6 check back? Also he is more than capable of raising my bet and then im forced to fold.


Also I was happy for the river to go check check as I was 60-70% sure my hand was good.
 
c9h13no3

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UTG shows Q T (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 44%, Flop 26%, Turn 9%)
Hero shows A 5 (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 56%, Flop 74%, Turn 91%)
Hero wins 34.8 BB
I'm not sure how being right on the river makes my point any less valid.
 
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MattJM68

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I'm not sure how being right on the river makes my point any less valid.

I'm backing up my statement that it was the correct call pre knowing how wide he is opening.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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The way to attack loose fish is by tightening up. The main way you win at low stakes is by being more selective preflop than your opponent. All the common low stakes advice is to play tight against your loose opponents.

Did someone tell you that the key to beating laggy fish is playing junk OOP right along with them?
 
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MattJM68

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The way to attack loose fish is by tightening up. The main way you win at low stakes is by being more selective preflop than your opponent. All the common low stakes advice is to play tight against your loose opponents.

Did someone tell you that the key to beating laggy fish is playing junk OOP right along with them?

I completely understand where you're coming from, and I get that playing a tight range against this guy is optimal.


My experience on stars with these guys is that they're crazy and will play till they run down their bankroll which is normally 1/2 buyins. Therefore I try to play as many pots with them as I can because they selfdestruct before they hit 100 hands and will never be seen again. So while I get your point, i'm never folding an ace in the big blind for 2 blinds when I know I get to play heads up with him with most likely the best hand. Nah, not for me.
 
Bozovicdj

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I'm backing up my statement that it was the correct call pre knowing how wide he is opening.

When we analyse the hands, almost always it comes down to whether the play that we made is beneficial in he LONG run, and in this particular hand it just wasn't. As c9h13no3 said, the way to attack loose fish is by tightening up. Playing A5o OOP, and check-calling all streets where you completely missed the board is a bad play, despite the fact that you were right this time. If you want to capitalize on the fact that you are the BB, and have a weak Ax then re-raise your opponent pre-flop and then c-bet the flop regardless of hitting the board or not. But keep in mind that this line is risky, but what you did here is not just risky but reckless as well.
 
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Sidetracked

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You should have folded a few times before the river.
 
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braveslice

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Q: A8o good enough to call pre?
 
Figaroo2

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Moving away from the actual hand to the general startegy of the game. A5os flat call in the blinds giving away position and initiative is a leak.Its going to take a big post flop edge to make it longterm +ev.
If you hit top pair and the money starts to go in are you folding?. You will get dominated fairly often.

3bet or fold pre.
A8 definitely 3bet.


Just don't flat in the blinds with ragged aces giving away position and initiative it's a bad habit.
 
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MattJM68

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Moving away from the actual hand to the general startegy of the game. A5os flat call in the blinds giving away position and initiative is a leak.Its going to take a big post flop edge to make it longterm +ev.
If you hit top pair and the money starts to go in are you folding?. You will get dominated fairly often.

3bet or fold pre.
A8 definitely 3bet.


Just don't flat in the blinds with ragged aces giving away position and initiative it's a bad habit.
Definately, against any good player I'd never call a UTG raise with this, my point was based on playing the player more than the cards. In this case I dont think hes gunna fold anything to a 3 bet so seems unnecessary.
 
Bozovicdj

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Definately, against any good player I'd never call a UTG raise with this, my point was based on playing the player more than the cards. In this case I dont think hes gunna fold anything to a 3 bet so seems unnecessary.

That just there is the whole point. If you are playing the player then how can you ever call from the blinds then check-call all streets with just A high? I mean even if villain is a super LAG player and wants to play so many different hands, and does not fold to 3 bets pre, still how do you just call all streets with Ahigh? I mean look at the board, you are only beating JT, QJ, QT, J9, Q9 and not even all of those combos as some would have made a flush...


I wouldn't hate to see a re-raise somewhere, perhaps on the turn where you may represent a K or a weak flush or something. But check calling all streets?
 
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MattJM68

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That just there is the whole point. If you are playing the player then how can you ever call from the blinds then check-call all streets with just A high? I mean even if villain is a super LAG player and wants to play so many different hands, and does not fold to 3 bets pre, still how do you just call all streets with Ahigh? I mean look at the board, you are only beating JT, QJ, QT, J9, Q9 and not even all of those combos as some would have made a flush...


I wouldn't hate to see a re-raise somewhere, perhaps on the turn where you may represent a K or a weak flush or something. But check calling all streets?
Give me some legitimate value hands that he can have...

I am sure he has more bluffs than value. And yes he is crazy LAG
 
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