$5 NLHE 6-max: Good spot for a Clerkmeister?

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 25/20/3

EDIT: I didn't see it wasn't 4 to a straight out there. Sorry for that. If anyone has any comments on the hand not regarding Clerkmeister, feel free to chime in.
Also, I was limping with a decent hand in the CO because BTN was a really aggressive spewy aggrotard that loved 3betting light.

Villain was a good aggressive TAG. When he checked that river I thought it's a good spot to overbet bluff. Is it, really?

Full Tilt - $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em (6 players)
Full Tilt Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com

SB: $5
BB Villain: $5.68
UTG: $5
MP: $5.14
CO Hero: $5.35
BTN: $12.36

Pre-flop: ($0.07) Hero is CO and dealt
2 folds, Hero calls $0.05, BTN calls $0.05, SB folds, Villain checks

Flop: ($0.17) (3 players)
Villain checks, Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($0.17) (3 players)
Villain bets $0.10, Hero calls $0.10, BTN folds

River: ($0.37) (2 players)
Villain checks, Hero???

Why didnt you raise 88 from the cut off? As for the over bet bluff, if you think he's a good TAG and would bet with a made straight or top pair then i think its probably fine to over bet around .80 here. Although you only wanna be overbet bluffing the guys who are capable of folding, like this guy. Best time to do it is when you can put them on middle pair's like when they try to keep the pot small, and do lots of check calling.

acky100 said:

Why didnt you raise 88 from the cut off? As for the over bet bluff, if you think he's a good TAG and would bet with a made straight or top pair then i think its probably fine to over bet around .80 here. Although you only wanna be overbet bluffing the guys who are capable of folding, like this guy. Best time to do it is when you can put them on middle pair's like when they try to keep the pot small, and do lots of check calling.

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Yeah, he had Q4o here. I didn't raise because BTN was a 3betting maniac.

Yeah well keep making notes on how players play marginal hands like top pair bad kicker and mid pairs and stuff, cause if theyre at all competent and not spewy like this guy sounds, when you bet twice the pot theres not much chance of them calling, just make sure youre overbet bluffs are a good size, atleast twice the pot imo, as some semi competent players like this guy might call a just over pot bet.

1) it's clarkmeister
2) clarkmeister only applies when there's 4 to a flush out there.

imo you're hand has decent showdown value, no need to bluff the river. What were btn's stats please

bgomez89 said:

1) it's clarkmeister
2) clarkmeister only applies when there's 4 to a flush out there.

imo you're hand has decent showdown value, no need to bluff the river. What were btn's stats please

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I don't have PT on this PC, but he was something crazy like 70/40 and 25% 3bet.

1) What do you mean by "1) it's clarkmeister"?
2) Yes, it only applies to 4 to a flush, but the concepts still holds, IMO, when the board is scary enough

you keep calling it clerkmeister when it's really clarkmeister(spelling nazi here).

With a maniac like that it might just be better to raise/jam against him and i still don't think it applies much when theres 4 to a straight on the board.

I dont think theres all that much showdown value when you're 4th best pair, i dunno... its not my favourite place to overbet bluff, board isnt terribly scary but against reggy tags it should be profitable here, but better when you can narrow a good tags range down by raising preflop, as his range here is like 90% of hands. But even so we assume good players bet with their top pair good kickers and he would definitely be betting out the river if he made a hand so its pretty obvious the guy isnt proud of his hand.

bgomez89 said:

you keep calling it clerkmeister when it's really clarkmeister(spelling nazi here).

With a maniac like that it might just be better to raise/jam against him and i still don't think it applies much when theres 4 to a straight on the board.

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Lol, I didn't see you actually corrected me I have an OCD with words, so don't think I'll ever be writing that wrong

acky100 said:

I dont think theres all that much showdown value when you're 4th best pair, i dunno... its not my favourite place to overbet bluff, board isnt terribly scary but against reggy tags it should be profitable here, but better when you can narrow a good tags range down by raising preflop, as his range here is like 90% of hands. But even so we assume good players bet with their top pair good kickers and he would definitely be betting out the river if he made a hand so its pretty obvious the guy isnt proud of his hand.

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Yeah, when I was in the heat of it, I thought there were 4 to a straight, when in fact it was a gutshot.

And you're quite right, I put myself in quite a tough spot, because I played the hand really passively before the flop, so his range is as wide as ATC on the flop.

On the river, as you said, it becomes clear that villain has a really weak TPWK type hand. I don't think he'd do that with a T here. So yeah, he basically played his hand face up, I just didn't notice it's a good spot to steal the pot.

yeah ive only started over bet bluffing, but im really starting to read how players value their hands and stuff and its nice when you successfully overbet bluff with air just because you know villain has what he perceives to be a marginal hand. So often you will see check/call check/call with pocket pair hands that make middle pair and stuff, such a good move against the tight and nitty players who are risk adverse. Also whilst you've been away I took your recommendation of starting 6-max as well as my usual FR, broadening my horizons... and its actually going well

acky100 said:

Also whilst you've been away I took your recommendation of starting 6-max as well as my usual FR, broadening my horizons... and its actually going well

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I don't remember going anywhere. Damn, I knew there was something wrong with those "vitamins" they gave me at the bar. Oh well...

On a related note: 6-max is awesome! A lot more fish and maniacs to play with. Everyone thinks second pair is the nuts, people 3betting like a gazzillion percent of their hands, and, overall, overvaluing their holdings. Oh, and, a lot shorter waiting lists.

Also, there are a lot more spots in a 6-max game that don't pop up that frequently or never in a FR game. A lot more 3betting, a lot more re-stealing, a lot more playing OOP, basically, it's a lot more involved game. In my opinion no one should play FR if they want to get better as a player. At least until NL $50 or so.

BTW, recently I have been dabbling @ $10 NL and noticed the games are a lot more aggressive than $2 and $5 NL. Almost every one of my LP opens was 3bet, and a lot of the times I was c/r on the flop when I do my usual cbet. Is it that big a difference?

acky100 said:

I dont think theres all that much showdown value when you're 4th best pair, i dunno... its not my favourite place to overbet bluff, board isnt terribly scary but against reggy tags it should be profitable here, but better when you can narrow a good tags range down by raising preflop, as his range here is like 90% of hands. But even so we assume good players bet with their top pair good kickers and he would definitely be betting out the river if he made a hand so its pretty obvious the guy isnt proud of his hand.

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what are you trying to fold out?

hmm not gonna agree with everything there FR is still good And definitely a better place to start off. I think the games are very similar just with slightly wider ranges. At the 6max ive seen theres hardly been any 3betting and when there is im happy to fold as people at the micros generally 3bet for value only, of course ive met a few with high 3 bets and thats always nice. i noticed from going from 5nl to 10nl full ring that people started 3 betting more, itll probably happen again when i go to 25nl, you'll get used to it. Still most people will be doing it for value just note how often theyre 3betting you and if the same person does it a few times just start a little war

bgomez89 said:

what are you trying to fold out?

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usually a middle pair or top pair weakish kicker. The way villain played this hand means i dont even have to think about what im folding out he just doesnt like his hand. noone with semi-competent stats here just checks the river with a made hand. I know where you're coming from and usually im playing my 8's for showdown value i just dont think we're ahead much being 4th pair. Plus overbetting the pot x2 villain only has to fold 67% of the time for this to be profitable for us, i think with the way it was played he's folding atleast 70% of the time.