$5 NLHE 6-max: Genius or idiot? why?

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cAPSLOCK

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$5 NL HE 6-max: Genius or idiot? why?

Player is fairly tight. 17/13 I put him on KK or QQ.

poker stars, $0.02/$0.05 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

SB: $25.56 (511.2 bb)
BB: $6.11 (122.2 bb)
cAPS (UTG): $6.76 (135.2 bb)
MP: $10 (200 bb)
CO: $2.11 (42.2 bb)
BTN: $8.59 (171.8 bb)

Pre-Flop: cAPS is UTG with 7
heart.gif
8
heart.gif

cAPS raises to $0.45, 3 folds, SB folds, BB raises to $0.95, cAPS calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.92) T
club.gif
5
heart.gif
A
heart.gif
(2 players)
BB bets $1.05, cAPS calls $1.05

Turn: ($4.02) 9
diamond.gif
(2 players)
BB checks, cAPS bets $4.76 and is all-in
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Meht, I'd just check this back. Villain may not even be able to fold K's or Q's at this level.
 
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Syfted

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Three 8s Three Js and nine hearts means a little over 30%... I actually like the all-in since it lays villain 2:1 which is pretty much our equity in the pot, right? So it doesn't matter whether villain calls or not...

And the % of time he folds is our value. I think we gain more value running this bluff. I don't have a problem with the all-in. It is 330am on EST though :p
 
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cAPSLOCK

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Thanks to both of you.

Three 8s Three Js and nine hearts means a little over 30%...

Remember That's 2+2+9 or 3+3+7 since two of our hearts are 8H JH
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Btw, what's up with the 9xbb's raise UTG with the s00ted cards?
 
S93

S93

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I fold prf. Why are we raising 9bbs from UTG? Im also not sure if i call the 3bet.
Oh and i like the shove, if we bet like 2$ add it where gonna unsucessfully bluff alot of river where as the shove basicly means where freerolling when called if villain ever folds here.
Dont mind checking back either but like the shove better.
 
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Syfted

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Thanks to both of you.



Remember That's 2+2+9 or 3+3+7 since two of our hearts are 8H JH

Our outs are the
2h3h4h6h9hThJhQhKh

+6c6d6s + JcJdJs


Assuming we follow through when a card like Th falls we have 15 outs here which is hugenesss. yarrrr in.
 
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feitr

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I kinda doubt that villain would fold QQ+ here all that often at these stakes. Shoving is +EV no doubt (only have to fold a tiny% w/ your equity in the pot) but if villain is a bad player and can't fold much of his range on the river, etc. then taking a free card and getting the money in for the 1/3 that you hit is alot more +EV.

In a situation like this - if you think you have alot of fold equity then shoving is best, but if you aren't going to fold out all that much (even IF you knew that villain's range was only QQ/KK, that doesn't tell us anything about whether or not villain is inclined to call with those hands) then it is better to just ship it in on the river when you have the nuts and get away from it when you miss.

But preflop is just a huge giant horrible ugly mess. YOu end up putting in almost 25bbs in preflop which is basically the same as flatting a 4B with proper bet sizing.
 
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bfw0082

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I dont see a call here, My guess is the player who bet the flop then checked the turn has the nut flush draw,

so to end the pot right here is good, and I cant see anyone making that call, unless they have AA and are such a noob they played them so weak as to entice a dumb move by the other player.
 
silverslugger33

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Why so much? With $4 in the pot, if he's going to fold to $5, he's also going to fold to $3, so you may as well just save the $2 in the event that he does call. While you're clearly committed with your draw if he raises you all in after your bet of $3, you may as well save it if you can and then bet the river if you hit (which he'll surely call because of the odds).
 
O

orangepeeleo

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Like a few others have said, can you explain the 45c raise pf?? i thought i'd read the title wrong when i seen that, seems a BIT excessive imo lol

5nl theres no need to be raising 78 9xbb UTG, even in 6max, fwiw i find that 6max is still the same ol poker, good cards in position will win you money at the micros, obv the good cards bit widens a tad but imo 78s utg doesn't fall into the 'good cards in position' category, more a, loose, over the top, raise in a bad position.
 
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orangepeeleo

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gogogogo the small blind lol 500bb stack, nice :)
 
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cAPSLOCK

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To answer your question... the raise was sort of table dependent, also based on the play of the SB previously and the implied odds of a strong flop with those cards.

I ALMOST got that strong flop, haha.

A 9bb raise preflop is something I would rarely do at any table. And I know it is far from ABC poker. I knew when I posted it would be a point of contention.
At that time and against that table I felt it would be an interesting play.

But the shove was the part I was wondering about. I know the pre flop play was extremely non standard and risky.

Many thanks to all for the time and input here.
 
BelgoSuisse

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Preflop is utter spew. I think burning dollar bills has better EV than this.

Shoving turn is fine. Not genius in anyway but fine.
 
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feitr

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To answer your question... the raise was sort of table dependent, also based on the play of the SB previously and the implied odds of a strong flop with those cards.

This is totally backwards. Implied odds refer to the situation where you have a hand that, while it isn't strong preflop, can have alot of equity postflop. An additional condition is that villain will hit alot of strong hands postflop that they will find hard to fold to your better hand or they are just plain spewy postflop and you can get paid even when they don't hit a big hand. Therefore, putting in a boatload of money in preflop while behind is completely counterintuitive.
 
Makwa

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I dont think u have fold equity here, so the push on turn is a little extreme for me. If I can check down a draw I prefer it, in most cases (for instance where I doubt villain will fold), than shoving.
 
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