$5 NLHE 6-max: Folding 2 Pair to River Donk Bet

Menschlich · Dec 10, 2013

Hand Information
No Limit, 0.06 BB (5 handed).
Hand History converter courtesy of pokerhandreplays.com

Table Information
Seat: 1 Player 1 ($6.65)
Seat: 2 Player 2 ($6.77)
Seat: 4 Hero ($6.25) Dealer
Seat: 6 Player 6 ($6.39) Small Blind
Seat: 7 Player 7 ($7.81) Big Blind
Dealt to Hero

*

*

Preflop (Pot:0.09)
Player 1****RAISE $0.15
Player 2****FOLD
Hero****CALL $0.15
Player 6****FOLD
Player 7****FOLD

Flop(Pot: $0.39)

*

*

Player 1****BET $0.23
Hero****RAISE $0.6
Player 1****CALL $0.37

Turn(Pot: $1.59)

*

*

Player 1****CHECK
Hero****BET $1.2
Player 1****CALL $1.2

River(Pot: $3.99)

*

*

Player 1****BET $2.23
Hero****FOLD
Showdown:
Player 1 MUCKS

Player 1**wins the pot: $6.22

Is this just a ridiculously nitty fold or is this the right move against most opponents at 6nl? Usually when an opponent leads the river like this it means he has a very strong hand and the only realistic range of hands that are beat are AK, AT, maybe worse Aces and missed flush draws. He could maybe have A6 or A7 but I think they would generally raise or re-raise in the hand and probably wouldn't play the river like this. I think the most likely hands that he had were AQ or Ax of spades. I don't think that most players would bluff in this spot but I could be wrong.

What does everyone think of my play throughout the hand? I definitely had the option of 3-betting pre but I decided against it because I had been quite actively 3-betting during this session already and also because he raised UTG (although we are only 5 handed).

I think my major mistake in the hand was that my raise on the flop was about 20c or so too small and I also think that I should have bet turn a bit bigger although 3/4s is not small. Now I'm just 2nd guessing myself about the river fold as I have made some bad folds in the past.

baudib1 · Dec 10, 2013

It's difficult to answer this post given the information you've given.

Menschlich · Dec 10, 2013

Well, I only have 103 hands on the guy. He's 27/15 and he actually doesn't seem very positionally aware opening more hands in EP than the Button.

John A · Dec 11, 2013

Raise WAY more on the flop. This is one of those spots where you should either be flatting for deception (which I would not recommend at these limits) or raising more because anyone who continues is calling or shoving with their entire range.

Turn is fine, but river I'd call w/o better info. If you say he's not positionally aware, then he could have some worse two pairs in his range or going for value with what he might think is the best hand AK. There's not going to be a ton of flush combos in his range if you think about the runout. You're looking at KsTs, Ts9s, 8s9s, 7s8s and there's not a whole lot of other reasonable flush draw combos from EP.

That being said, I don't think the EV difference of call/fold here is really huge. You're probably slightly over 0 with a call.

baudib1 · Dec 11, 2013

You're looking at KsTs, Ts9s, 8s9s, 7s8s and there's not a whole lot of other reasonable flush draw combos from EP.

AsXs is a bunch of reasonable combos.

jaworek1405 · Dec 11, 2013

Everything is good, but I don't raise on the flop, because all FD will call it. I know it is very strong the flop for us, top two pairs, but I prefer here only call and to control the pot. The turn - I can check and to control the pot or bet because we are in position, and we don't want to give him free card, so maybe better here is bet. The river - if he bets, I can call, pot shouldn't be so big, but I prefer fold, because the flush. I think when he called your raise on the flop, only FD can call it, sometimes maybe a set. So IMO two pairs seem a little too weak in this hand.

John A · Dec 11, 2013

baudib1 said:
AsXs is a bunch of reasonable combos.

Yeah, it was late and I'm sick and for some reason I think I thought the Ac was the As.

DenverDave · Dec 11, 2013

For what it's worth, I ran this through a tool to check your equity. By the river this tool had you at 79%. Your hand is best 77% of the time. Now those are just numbers, and yes you will have players that are X/X vpip/pfr and will for some reason play something totally out of that range.

I like the numbers and would have called. Just my $.02.

And yes if he had me beat and played some odd hand, that gets noted and I watch him like a hawk!!

jj20002 · Dec 11, 2013

tough call

Menschlich said:
Hand Information
No Limit, 0.06 BB (5 handed).
Hand History converter courtesy of pokerhandreplays.com

Table Information
Seat: 1 Player 1 ($6.65)
Seat: 2 Player 2 ($6.77)
Seat: 4 Hero ($6.25) Dealer
Seat: 6 Player 6 ($6.39) Small Blind
Seat: 7 Player 7 ($7.81) Big Blind
Dealt to Hero

*

*

Preflop (Pot:0.09)
Player 1****RAISE $0.15
Player 2****FOLD
Hero****CALL $0.15
Player 6****FOLD
Player 7****FOLD

Flop(Pot: $0.39)

*

*

*

Player 1****BET $0.23
Hero****RAISE $0.6
Player 1****CALL $0.37

Turn(Pot: $1.59)

*

*

*

*

Player 1****CHECK
Hero****BET $1.2
Player 1****CALL $1.2

River(Pot: $3.99)

*

*

*

*

*

Player 1****BET $2.23
Hero****FOLD
Showdown:
Player 1 MUCKS

Player 1**wins the pot: $6.22

Is this just a ridiculously nitty fold or is this the right move against most opponents at 6nl? Usually when an opponent leads the river like this it means he has a very strong hand and the only realistic range of hands that are beat are AK, AT, maybe worse Aces and missed flush draws. He could maybe have A6 or A7 but I think they would generally raise or re-raise in the hand and probably wouldn't play the river like this. I think the most likely hands that he had were AQ or Ax of spades. I don't think that most players would bluff in this spot but I could be wrong.

What does everyone think of my play throughout the hand? I definitely had the option of 3-betting pre but I decided against it because I had been quite actively 3-betting during this session already and also because he raised UTG (although we are only 5 handed).

I think my major mistake in the hand was that my raise on the flop was about 20c or so too small and I also think that I should have bet turn a bit bigger although 3/4s is not small. Now I'm just 2nd guessing myself about the river fold as I have made some bad folds in the past.

tough decision

first i think you should 4bet to get more info

second, the hand was played good and the decision at the end looks good too

what hands could he open like that?

AA (1 option) winning
QQ (3 options) winning
JJ (1 option) winning
77 (3 options) winning
66 (3 options) winning, and this is unlikely since he paid after the flop, and the flop brings and ace

11 winning chances

KK (6 options) losing, very unlikely after the board shows and A and the way he bets
AK (8 options) losing

A-T (8 options) but very unlikely so just count these 8 options for all Ax, being x T or less, losing

TT (6 options) losing,
99 (6 options) losing
88 (6 options) losing

for me last three are very unlikely because the board don´t help him to bet the way he did

for unlekile options i like to add 20-25%

so at the end he has 14-16 losing chances

for the way he played (and the lack of enough info), and skipping any attempt to bluff (including all the hands above)

he had a:
77, JJ, AA (and got the set in the flop)

QQ (and got the set in the river)

or AK and in this case you were won but is the unique case, so at the end i think you did the right move, folding after the river

micromoi · Dec 11, 2013

i dont blame u for folding but in that spot i'm not going anywhere, if he was drawing there it is ba for him he did not have the right oddto do so. so i call its a win in the long run

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$5 NLHE 6-max: Folding 2 Pair to River Donk Bet

Menschlich

Enthusiast

baudib1

Legend

Menschlich

Enthusiast

John A

Poker Zion Coach

baudib1

Legend

jaworek1405

Legend

John A

Poker Zion Coach

DenverDave

Enthusiast

jj20002

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micromoi

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