$5 NLHE 6-max: Fold with JQoff on a KKQ flop?

mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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iPoker - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 100 BB
MP: 100 BB
Hero (CO): 128.8 BB
BTN: 110 BB
SB: 29.8 BB
BB: 98 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has J:club: Q:spade:

fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (6.4 BB, 2 players) K:spade: K:heart: Q:heart:
BB bets 3 BB, Hero raises to 9 BB, BB raises to 50 BB, fold


Spoiler alert: I folded. You guys will probably be able to figure that out anyway because most of the time if I didn't fold I would post the rest of the hand. Was the fold right? did I play the hand right up until that point?

Villains are all unknown with only 4 hands of history at this table. so I removed the stats because theyre unhelpful
 
IPlay

IPlay

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Fold is alright but when we raised the flop what worse hands did we expect to call us?
 
Dutchtegon

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I would say that you played well, the odds that he had that king was so small. If you cann't get a read on the opponent because you haven't seen that much hands you can only count on you feeling and the math. The math gives you great odds, so I would say well played.
 
mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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Fold is alright but when we raised the flop what worse hands did we expect to call us?

Pocket pairs and sticky OESDs or FDs, maybe even AJ or AT? i did want to protect my hand to some degree.

BB's less than half pot donk was pretty polarizing, it was either really good or he was trying to block for a draw.
 
TimovieMan

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Why raise the flop?

It's a WA/WB situation, you're either way ahead or way behind. Best course of action is to get as cheap a showdown as possible.

Since only an A can destroy your hand, you don't give up a lot of equity by playing this passively (and even checking through a street).
 
DrazaFFT

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Pretty good spot to went into calling mod at least 2 streets and evaluate when get to the river accordin to the cards that show up. Raise flop is kinda bad here, i love to raise donks by default but the paired board is not a great spot to do that, as played i would also fold to reraise.
 
mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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I didn't believe his donk. Seemed like a bad bluff. He could be donking with hearts, AJ, AT, or JT right?
 
DrazaFFT

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IMO it is a wrong thing to do to respond with bluff to a bluff, if you think he is bluffing, then bluff catch him. by raising you folding all you beat (thus loosing pretty good showdown value) and induce all that beats you, even that he is drawing, there are lot of combo/monster draws that are ahead. What if he called and raise and donk again, what to do next on a J/T/A/h or a brick??? Raise him again? Call? it getting more and more complicated that way, when you think someone is bluffing, call him, dont try to chase him out, that is pretty big and pretty common mistake for beginners imo, hope i havent offended you with the beginner thing, i was talking in general...
 
John A

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I don't mind raising the donk bet, and good fold. Most of the time your opponent is either calling or folding. If they call, then they will usually check the turn and you just took control of the hand. Most draws will just call, and you get more value. If he's betting with a small/mid pair, he's not going to put more money in any way, and just calling you give him the small chance of outdrawing. When you get to the turn you can decide whether to pot control or go for more value. I think it's a much better approach than being a calling station in these spots. I think a lot of people get confused by the idea that worse won't call in a spot like this, and that's not the only thing to consider in this situation.
 
mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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I think a lot of people get confused by the idea that worse won't call in a spot like this, and that's not the only thing to consider in this situation.
Could you elaborate on this? I think I might be confused by it too. Do you mean that people aren't calling worse only if they're playing perfectly or..?

IMO it is a wrong thing to do to respond with bluff to a bluff, if you think he is bluffing, then bluff catch him. by raising you folding all you beat (thus loosing pretty good showdown value) and induce all that beats you, even that he is drawing, there are lot of combo/monster draws that are ahead. What if he called and raise and donk again, what to do next on a J/T/A/h or a brick??? Raise him again? Call? it getting more and more complicated that way, when you think someone is bluffing, call him, dont try to chase him out, that is pretty big and pretty common mistake for beginners imo, hope i havent offended you with the beginner thing, i was talking in general...
I think you have a point, but I'm expecting him to call with a lot of speculative hands here, and he's OOP so I would expect him to check if a brick comes and I would barrel. Its not really a bluff. Its for value. I agree, I could see how its getting tricky.
 
R

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iPoker - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 100 BB
MP: 100 BB
Hero (CO): 128.8 BB
BTN: 110 BB
SB: 29.8 BB
BB: 98 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has J Q

fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (6.4 BB, 2 players) K K Q
BB bets 3 BB, Hero raises to 9 BB, BB raises to 50 BB, fold


Spoiler alert: I folded. You guys will probably be able to figure that out anyway because most of the time if I didn't fold I would post the rest of the hand. Was the fold right? did I play the hand right up until that point?

Villains are all unknown with only 4 hands of history at this table. so I removed the stats because theyre unhelpful
You played the hand the way It should be.
 
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