$5 NLHE 6-max: Flop mid-set on wet board, bad turn, horrible river, fold??

O

orangepeeleo

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$5 NL HE 6-max: Flop mid-set on wet board, bad turn, horrible river, fold??

Villains stats are only over 26 hands.

poker stars, $0.02/$0.05 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

BTN: $4.11 (82.2 bb)
SB: $2.56 (51.2 bb)
BB: $9.70 (194 bb)
UTG: $5.51 (110.2 bb)
MP: $1.30 (26 bb)
Hero (CO): $5.09 (101.8 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with 6:diamond: 6:spade:
UTG folds, MP calls $0.05, Hero raises to $0.20, BTN calls $0.20, 2 folds, MP calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.67) 4:diamond: Q:diamond: 6:heart: (3 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $0.45, BTN calls $0.45, MP folds

Turn: ($1.57) 5:spade: (2 players)
Hero bets $1.30, BTN calls $1.30

River: ($4.17) 7:diamond: (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $2.16 and is all-in, Hero folds

Results: $4.17 pot ($0.20 rake)
BTN mucked and won $3.97 ($2.02 net)

The call on the flop could be TP, but unlikely, would of thought he'd raise tp there, set of fours, or the obv straight or fd.

When the 5 comes on the turn did i do the right thing by firing again?? There are more flushdraw combos than straights but having a think about it now the majority of hands that call are beating me here, higher set, again unlikely, or a straight, can we expect fd's to still call along now that the straight draw completes?? Is the best move here on the turn a c/c to a small bet to try to keep the pot smaller?? Or is that just letting a fd, which is a more likely holding, catch up for a small/free price??

On the river the worst card in the deck comes down imo, completes so many draws and the villain's been playing real passive so i have to put him on a flush or a straight here right?? I mean, i know i'm getting 2-1 odds on the river call, and this is a perfect spot for him to bluff at me, but given the pot odds what percentage of the time do i have to catch him bluffing to make calling ok??
 
Steveg1976

Steveg1976

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Bet the flop and the turn bigger so that you are pot commited by the river and can't be bluffed.
 
Richyl2008

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Check calling the turn is the worst option imo. Betting out and checkraising allin are the best choices. Since you say he's been playing real passive I would much rather bet out like you did, since he'll probably just check behind his draws and med. strength hands. I disagree that when he calls the turn you say the majority of his hands are beating you, in fact I think when he just calls here you are almost always ahead.

River decision is kind of close I suppose. Whether or not you think he is likely to bluff, or to shove with something like 2 pair. Your getting roughly 3 to 1, so you need to be good here somewhere around 25% of the time.
 
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i would agree that making a larger turn bet would been good.

make him pay if he is drawing and also make you committed on river.
 
Deco

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The turn bet is large :rolleyes:
Why is all the advise suggesting we add an extra 20c to our turn bet as if it would make a difference.

I think the big error here is folding.
Were pot committed we have to be good 25% of the time here to make this call, I think were easily good that often.
 
Steveg1976

Steveg1976

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The turn bet is large :rolleyes:

If he hero bets $.60 on the Flop, the Turn pot will be $1.87, he has a set and all kinds of draws and top pairs will still call a big bet here. By betting ~$1.80 on the turn villian only has $1.51 left compelling him to stack top pair. We have a great hand and want to get as much money in the middle as we can. Small bets may be called more often but that doesn't make them correct.
 
ChuckTs

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We bet bigger because people at 5nl don't adjust their calling ranges based on bet size, and we have a value hand on a wet board multiway. I see no reason to bet smaller.
 
Stu_Ungar

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I agree, I think the turn bet should be bigger, although I think the flop bet is fine.

By betting bigger on the turn you really charge a flush draw.

Wit more money in on the turn, the stacks are smaller and the pot bigger.

If you check the river, a villain bet here is far more likely to be a bluff than when there is more money in the stack.

He cheaply represents a flush (after your show of weakness) and cannot be rebluffed.

With more money left you face a tougher decision if a flush card falls on the river and make it less likely your opponent will stab at it.
 
Steveg1976

Steveg1976

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I agree, I think the turn bet should be bigger, although I think the flop bet is fine.

By betting bigger on the turn you really charge a flush draw.

Wit more money in on the turn, the stacks are smaller and the pot bigger.

If you check the river, a villain bet here is far more likely to be a bluff than when there is more money in the stack.

He cheaply represents a flush (after your show of weakness) and cannot be rebluffed.

With more money left you face a tougher decision if a flush card falls on the river and make it less likely your opponent will stab at it.

Flop bets greatly affect Turn and River bet sizes. With a set we definetely want to be betting and getting it all in as fast as we can when possible. Betting the flop bigger helps us do that.
 
Stu_Ungar

Stu_Ungar

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You are right, but right now I am not varying my c-bet size at all.. its 3/4 pot and so I feel I should be keeping my value bets the same size.

Maybe this is something I should change.
 
Steveg1976

Steveg1976

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You are right, but right now I am not varying my c-bet size at all.. its 3/4 pot and so I feel I should be keeping my value bets the same size.

Maybe this is something I should change.

No need to go crazy with it but you can certainly bet more for value against 99% of the micro monkeys because they just don't notice what you are doing.
 
Deco

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You are right, but right now I am not varying my c-bet size at all.. its 3/4 pot and so I feel I should be keeping my value bets the same size.

Maybe this is something I should change.

I tend to bet half pot for c-bets
3/4-full pot for value.

Completely unbalanced of course but it goes unnoticed by most players.
If I deem someone as likely to notice I will switch back to balancing my bet sizing based on flop texture rather than the aim if my bet.
 
trewtrew

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Just shove the turn, as at these stakes, most Queens will call a huge overbet and if he has a draw he can lay it down, and even if he calls (u may lose this one) but u will beat him most the time.
 
Implied Odds3

Implied Odds3

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Bet more on every street trying to push out the draw, but it was a good fold IMO because the flush and straight got there.
 
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