$5 NLHE 6-max: Facing a shove on a 3bet pot multiway

Alucard

Alucard

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Really hard to assign a range here. I can only thing of some pairs & A2s as a value range. Or some weird hand

partypoker - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

BTN: 114 BB (VPIP: 16.33, PFR: 15.31, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, hands: 99)
SB: 168.8 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
BB: 108.2 BB (VPIP: 20.18, PFR: 15.14, 3Bet Preflop: 6.25, Hands: 229)
UTG: 243.4 BB (VPIP: 29.73, PFR: 21.62, 3Bet Preflop: 6.25, Hands: 37)
Hero (MP): 148.2 BB
CO: 101.8 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 18.75, 3Bet Preflop: 4.76, Hands: 164)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Th Td
fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, SB calls 2.6 BB, BB raises to 12 BB, Hero calls 9 BB, SB calls 9 BB

Flop : (36 BB, 3 players) 2h 2d 3s
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks

Turn : (36 BB, 3 players) 7c
SB bets 27.6 BB, fold, Hero calls 27.6 BB

River : (91.2 BB, 2 players) 5h
SB bets 129.2 BB and is all-in,
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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I'd put the SB pretty solidly on 99-JJ. Maybe pocket 8's as well, but I'm not sure they get through a 3-bet and then shove the river with such gusto. I'd expect QQ to 3-bet pre.

I suppose I'd fold the river. You checked the flop to induce from worse, but I'm not sure worse over-shoves the river. Too few hands to put your opponent on an F-U bluff.
 
R

RakeMyLife

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Preflop: no problems.

Flop: WHY check!? Your hand is too good to let villains see a free card and not good enough to induce a bet on a 3-bet flop.


Turn: This board is awfully dry, so his range is polarized. Not a ton of information otherwise so a call is fine to see what he does on river.


River: His shove further polarizes his range. I can’t see him making this play with an 88 or 99 so how often is he bluffing here?


Given that you know very little about him (HUD doesn’t help here), fold is probably the more profitable play. Had you bet the flop, you would have more information to make this decision.
 
TheBigFinn

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SB called, over called a 3-bet preflop. I expect her to check the very dry flop. There are very few 2s or 3s in anybody's range. That said TT isn't good enough to give a free card. Any paint or Ace could well hit one of your opponents and make your hand hard to play. TT is not the kind of hand you should want to get it in with. Best to end it here.

As played, I doubt the 7c helps anyone but someone with 77. When SB bets out It looks like a pair. QQ+ wouldn't have called, over called preflop I doubt 55, 44, 33 or 22 would either. This leaves JJ, TT, 99, 88, 77, 66 and suited connector and over cards. It looks bad, but you are calling 110 to win 210. I have to call it off.

SB
 
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RakeMyLife

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110 to win 210 is ONLY good if ur odds to win (equity) are equal or better than that. They don’t seem to be in this scenario since you really can’t be sure he’s bluffing. A bluff is the only hand you can reasonably beat.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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After a little more thought, I think it's a little presumptuous to rule 22 and 33 out of his range here at 5NL. I think his range when he shoves the river is probably 22, 33, 77, TT, JJ (maybe 88 & 99). There's just not a lot of air in his range either (when you lead into 2 players, you've probably got something).

The flop is the one interesting decision, where a small 1/3rd pot bet could charge over cards about the right price where folding would be a mistake. Lower pairs will probably be more likely to call the flop, and the BB has essentially rolled his hand over that he's given up. I'm down with betting this board.

So if you fold the river as played, that's not bad. But given the player profiles, I'd rather bet the flop.
 
Alucard

Alucard

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Do we always bet the flop in position with this type of hand when the 3bettor checks to us or is it only because this is multiway?? Would you be betting flop vs one opponent??Because there are some Aces & Kings who'd check this flop to induce a bluff steal.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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More overcards (from more players) out there does make betting our hand for protection more appealing. But we can also get 44-99 to call quite often.

We often lose money trying to bluff catch, calling down with 2nd pair. Realizing our equity immediately has value. This isn't a WA/WB spot, since many hands have 6 outs against us.
 
B

braveslice

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We often lose money trying to bluff catch, calling down with 2nd pair.

Yeah, lately I have been thinking about this, at least it feels that if I do slow play like this at 2NL I need to auto fold to river barrel, except if I have really really good reason to call, and even then it's mostly wrong especially vs larger bet size. However we can still bet river for value, mostly, if no barrel by villain, imo.
 
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