$5 NLHE 6-max: Double barrelling after believed steal?

J

jackaoliver

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OK so felt like this play maybe was not optimal, don't have any stats but my perception of this player is reasonably tight but was caught trying to steal by another player previously. Will be thankful for any analysis :)

Only notes are : attempted steal with 82s

poker stars $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players - View hand 2424483
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

CO: $4.50
BTN: $6.80
Hero (SB): $5.81
BB: $3.09

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is SB with K :club: 9 :club:
1 fold, BTN raises to $0.12, Hero raises to $0.35, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.23

Flop: ($0.75) K :heart: 8 :spade: A :spade: (2 players)
Hero bets $0.50, BTN calls $0.50

Turn: ($1.75) 2 :diamond: (2 players)
Hero bets $1.15, ......
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

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Why do you want to play an inflated pot OOP with a pretty modest hand on the basis that he tried to steal one time with 82s? And what happened on that hand that you got to see what he had?

While I'm not saying it was a bad spot to 3bet, I don't think you've given me enough reason to think it was a good one.
 
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Henreiman

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Going to jump on the train and agree with Arjonius. Without stats saying he is opening wide, from the SB this is less than profitable. From the BB we could consider it, but even then this is closer to our merged range that polarized 3bet
 
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JBiebs9

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I like your 3 bet if youre in the bb. It polarizes your range. As played, I dont think I'm firing on the turn. I think after he calls the flop bet its check/fold unless you improve
 
Arjonius

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I like your 3 bet if youre in the bb. It polarizes your range.
How important is this at 5nl? It only matters against opponents who realize your range is polarized and adapt away from what they'd do if you were unpolarized.
 
JOEBOB69

JOEBOB69

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The resteal with K9 is fine.
Cbet looks good.
Given he called the 3bet pre, and he called flop that board hit his range i prob c/f turn.
 
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hffjd2000

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I still like your turn bet representing Ace. I would like to see his reaction to your progressive bet.

If he still calls, I would probably check on the river.
 
S

swingro

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Fold pre.
We need a lot more info to play this OOP and over a large sample. F3B, FCB.
I see not reason to go to a war against him at 5NL. Simply 2NL ,5NL and 10NL are way too profitable just playing against Loose Passive fish and Maniacs. Why test if a TAG is better than us playing him in marginal spots?
 
John A

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4- handed, looks fine. I'd 3-bet a little more though.

Turn is easy... don't over complicate things. If you are not planning on c/fing the turn (and I wouldn't), then you're better off betting to possibly force him off better Kx, or get value from draws / other stubborn pairs, 8x. If he raises, you can fold. Only time you should check here is if 1) You think your opponent is really bluff prone and you're planning on calling, or 2) You think he's tight and won't bet with worse than Ax or call with worse than Ax, and you're planning on c/fing.

I'd say based on your read, there's going to be a lot of random draw hands in his range, so bet the turn, check/call most rivers. Keep poker simple.
 
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Six Hurdles

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I like your 3 bet if youre in the bb. It polarizes your range. As played, I dont think I'm firing on the turn. I think after he calls the flop bet its check/fold unless you improve

I'm not sure where you get the idea that a3 bet is polarizing. Our hands is the very definition of middling. What would really polarize our range would be our action to a 4 bet. Unfortunately in that case the polarization is pretty helpful to our opponent. We have to fold K9, and most likely fold our air. That pretty much leaves us with premiums that we are playing.

I like the 3 bet, but it means we need to be careful if we hit resistance on the flop. I would go 2/3 on flop, 35-40% blocker bet or c/c on the turn and same on the river. If they raise in the turn I'm folding unless you have very strong evidence that this is a steal attempt. In my opinion it takes more than one more to make that case.
 
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Ubercroz

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Pre flop: I don't like the 3bet here. What is the purpose of the bet? Value? Bluff? The problem with hands like K9 are that they might connect with the board, but are never going to be that good.
So you are setting yourself up to be in a situation where you have a middle strength hand that has equity - which means you can't really bluff effectively since you might be best. You also can't really bet for value since other hands that are going to stick around have a strong chance of beating you. On top of that you are out of position, which means you get no good info and you are going to end up building a pot where you may not be able to compete.
I would much rather do this with something like a 560 or a 34o. When you don't hit it is easy to know where you are and if you choose to bluff its easy to toss. If you hit, you either know you are beat or you have to have a strong hand. Try to set yourself up for an easy play on the flop. Playing back at someone with middle strength hands is going to lead to losing money and hard decisions. Poker is about setting yourself up for easy choices later and you will find the game much easier. Once the competition starts to get better then you can mix up play for deception - which is ultimately only to let you make optimal plays more often.

Flop: Since you 3 bet, I think you pretty much have to bet here. Anything else looks real strange, but you are going to be in a tough spot later - since you have equity. Make sure its a smallish bet -.50 is probably fine.

Turn: I don't know that I like the turn here. I think a check is likely fine. On the other hand you did have some moisture on that flop, so you don't want to give a draw a free card. a bet that big is going to drive away the callers with worse hands. If they have a pure draw .50 is all you really need to make it a losing option for them to call. But I think .75 is a fine size bet too. Anything more and you are getting into territory where only better hands call.
 
Aces2w1n

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I like the play pre and pot size on the flop. I find 2/3 or 3/4 just looks weak, and ppl respect full size pot size bets better.. remember we need to get him to fold 50% to make this play profitable.

We raise bigger on the flop... if he jumps we shove. Make them fear us. It's our play not his lets see it through.
 
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Ubercroz

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I like the play pre and pot size on the flop. I find 2/3 or 3/4 just looks weak, and ppl respect full size pot size bets better.. remember we need to get him to fold 50% to make this play profitable.

We raise bigger on the flop... if he jumps we shove. Make them fear us. It's our play not his lets see it through.

So your advice is essentially to throw money at him and hope that he doesn't have anything that can call?

I would heartily disagree. Making a flop bet bigger because "people respect it more" is crazy town. you can only bully the table so long, and it leads you into situations where someone is going to call you with something and you are going to lose your stack.

Using that reasoning, your play has to be profitable much more often than 50% of the time, becuase you are going to lose more money postflop than just the preflop 3bet. If that is the case you really have to make money a substantial amount of the time for this to be profitable.

The odds are just terrible and that strategy is not going to lead to long term success, but it will lead to winning some hands. Ultimately it will lead to big variance, winning small pots and losing big ones.
 
OldschoolSteinhausen

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This is a redline vs blueline hand
 
John A

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It's the 4th or 5th re-invention of Old School. Oh joy...
 
J

jackaoliver

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Would like to say thanks to all that gave their opinion even if it was far from conclusive, if I remember correctly the dude just folded but I'm not 100% on that
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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So your advice is essentially to throw money at him and hope that he doesn't have anything that can call?

I would heartily disagree. Making a flop bet bigger because "people respect it more" is crazy town. you can only bully the table so long, and it leads you into situations where someone is going to call you with something and you are going to lose your stack.

Using that reasoning, your play has to be profitable much more often than 50% of the time, becuase you are going to lose more money postflop than just the preflop 3bet. If that is the case you really have to make money a substantial amount of the time for this to be profitable.

The odds are just terrible and that strategy is not going to lead to long term success, but it will lead to winning some hands. Ultimately it will lead to big variance, winning small pots and losing big ones.

LOL normally it leads to them stacking me because they get upset I'm bullying them but anyways :)... I don't know k9s we looking for clubs or 2 pair... It's thin on this board though so we don't end it on the flop we are just burning money.

They call us on the flop and we hit 2 pair on the turn... We have value =) and we can stack off someone who can't let go of top pair or high pairs.... But I play micros all the time perhaps you play higher tables?
 
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Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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But in actual fact if I don't steal pre I normally give this up unless I hit 2 pair or flush draw.

I have really gotten rid of marginal hands like this and on tracker I'm not stealing enough by like 1 or 2 hands. But I've lost a lot in the blinds in the past which I've now been making money in the blinds :)

These hands give me nightmares thinking about how fire ho I use to be
 
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