$5 NLHE 6-max: double barrel on a dry flop/turn against unknown

#1 18th May 2016, 5:49 PM

I know I know I know, fold pre! haha this hand is just outside of what my range should be, but I played it because I thought I could steal the blinds against tight players.. misread the stats and didnt realize the sample size was only 1 hand on sb and 6 on bb... woops (and also suited Kx flops well sometimes)

so that aside, was it right to double barrel against an unknown here?

iPoker - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 15.4 BB (VPIP: 45.45, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
SB: 101 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
BB: 188.8 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
UTG: 100 BB (VPIP: 18.18, PFR: 9.09, 3Bet Preflop: 33.33, Hands: 11)
MP: 34.2 BB (VPIP: 45.45, PFR: 18.18, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
Hero (CO): 111 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 8♠ K♠

fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, SB calls 2.6 BB, fold

Flop: (7 BB, 2 players) 5♣ 3♠ 7♣
SB checks, Hero bets 4 BB, SB calls 4 BB

Turn: (15 BB, 2 players) 5♥
SB checks, Hero bets 10 BB, fold

#2 18th May 2016, 6:36 PM

It's fine. And preflop isn't that far off either.

You might want to take out the results, though. It's very easy for us to agree with your play if we know villain folded.

#3 18th May 2016, 6:57 PM

Originally Posted by TimovieMan

It's fine. And preflop isn't that far off either.

You might want to take out the results, though. It's very easy for us to agree with your play if we know villain folded.

Sorry, I had "hide results" checked, forgot that it still shows the fold

I think I was kind of worried that he was slowplaying with something stupid like 35off

#4 18th May 2016, 8:55 PM

Pre is actually fine but this turn card is not a good one to barrel on. A lot of villains are not folding to that turn card after calling the flop and we didn't pick up any equity.

Try to double barrel cards that hit your perceived range and when you pick up equity(Such as back door flush draw)

#5 18th May 2016, 9:05 PM

Originally Posted by IPlay

Pre is actually fine but this turn card is not a good one to barrel on. A lot of villains are not folding to that turn card after calling the flop and we didn't pick up any equity.

Try to double barrel cards that hit your perceived range and when you pick up equity(Such as back door flush draw)

I think he called my cbet on the flop just because he knew it was a standard Cbet bluff. His check/call -check seemed weak like he was looking to improve himself. Maybe he was trying to complete a draw?

I'm an unknown to him too so for all he knows I could have made a set with a 5?

#6 18th May 2016, 9:11 PM

Originally Posted by mbrenneman0

I think he called my cbet on the flop just because he knew it was a standard Cbet bluff. His check/call -check seemed weak like he was looking to improve himself. Maybe he was trying to complete a draw?

I'm an unknown to him too so for all he knows I could have made a set with a 5?

In theory though, especially 5NL on Bovada people that call that flop are not folding to that turn card. So it is not a good spot to barrel even though it worked out well for you here.

#7 18th May 2016, 9:15 PM

Originally Posted by IPlay

In theory though, especially 5NL on Bovada people that call that flop are not folding to that turn card. So it is not a good spot to barrel even though it worked out well for you here.

Just to clarify, you're saying that if he calls that flop he's probably a calling station?

#8 18th May 2016, 9:18 PM

Originally Posted by mbrenneman0

Just to clarify, you're saying that if he calls that flop he's probably a calling station?

Not exactly what I am saying but kind of. I am saying he most likely has something he isn't folding because he had something to call flop with and that turn really doesn't change anything but improve some of the A high hands that he floated with.

What hands in villains range is calling this flop that is folding to a turn bet?

#9 18th May 2016, 9:24 PM

Originally Posted by IPlay

Not exactly what I am saying but kind of. I am saying he most likely has something he isn't folding because he had something to call flop with and that turn really doesn't change anything but improve some of the A high hands that he floated with.

What hands in villains range is calling this flop that is folding to a turn bet?

Well, being unknown his range is undefined, but probably Ax, KQ, KJ, 88-JJ, i don't know how many x3 hands are in his range but i could see those calling the flop and folding the turn... And maaaaybe some drawing hands that didn't improve on the turn

Maybe he thinks well enough to know that a cbet on a flop like that is usually a bluff, but then thought I was serious when I fired again. I'm definitely not committing any more to the pot if he calls or raises, or bets the river though.

#10 18th May 2016, 10:08 PM

No one pair hands fold that turn. You're smoking rocks if you think he folds JJ here.

The question is really how often he calls out of position with overs. I almost guarantee that's what he folded. Just not sure this is KJ enough for us to profit long term.

#11 18th May 2016, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by c9h13no3

No one pair hands fold that turn. You're smoking rocks if you think he folds JJ here.

The question is really how often he calls out of position with overs. I almost guarantee that's what he folded. Just not sure this is KJ enough for us to profit long term.

What about 88-TT or 66

But yeah I agree that he's probably folding overs.

I think it would definitely be better if I had a little more history to go on here

#12 18th May 2016, 10:51 PM

88-TT are not folding either and his Ace highs now chop with your Ace highs so they may not fold.

#13 18th May 2016, 11:10 PM

Okay. Would it be fair to say that the double barrel here is villain dependent and without a history on the villain, the better play would be to check and look for more equity on the river?

I'm thinking my fold equity here is probably like 20 - 30 % ... is that accurate? Is there a reliable way to find my fold equity here if we assume villain has average stats? Or can you only ever guestimate fold equity?

If I check the turn, and an over comes on the river but it doesn't connect with me, and villain checks to me, should I bet then?

$5 NLHE 6-max: double barrel on a dry flop/turn against unknown

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