$5 NLHE 6-max: Check-Shoving flop

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thebigslade

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Any thoughts? I feel that, given villain is a fairly standard player, he is betting 100% of his range if/when I check, but if I lead I will be forcing folds from JJ, TT, AJ, or even AQ as it forces a tricky turn for him.

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 106.8 BB (VPIP: 20.55, PFR: 20.55, 3Bet Preflop: 7.41, hands: 74)
SB: 107.4 BB (VPIP: 15.79, PFR: 15.79, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 40)
BB: 102.4 BB (VPIP: 27.42, PFR: 22.58, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 63)
Hero (UTG): 100 BB
MP: 109.6 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 22.22, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
CO: 100 BB (VPIP: 22.76, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 3.85, Hands: 148)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Q:club: Q:spade:

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, CO raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 28.4 BB, CO calls 19.4 BB

Flop: (58.2 BB, 2 players) Q:diamond: 3:heart: K:diamond:
Hero checks, CO bets 28 BB, Hero raises to 71.6 BB and is all-in, CO calls 43.6 BB and is all-in

Turn: (201.4 BB, 2 players) J:spade:

River: (201.4 BB, 2 players) 9:diamond:

Hero shows Q:club: Q:spade: (Three of a Kind, Queens)

CO mucks K:spade: A:diamond: (One Pair, Kings)

Hero wins 193 BB
 
PCK

PCK

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I dont like that ch/raise on the flop after you 4bet preflop,you`re set is very visibile there :D
 
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tomnovember

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You'd better cbet the flop here.
 
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hffjd2000

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I like your play sir.

Leading would also be good since its a drawing flop.

Unlucky for him he has a decent hand on the flop.
 
suby_rafael

suby_rafael

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I agree with those saying check raising is not ideal on the flop.

I'd rather continuation bet or just flat call the flop bet and give villain a chance to bet again on the turn. If villain slows down on the turn and checks back then i shove the river for value.

This is because in case villain is bluffing the flop then we are giving him another opportunity to continue bluffing on the turn. If we check raise then we are taking this opportunity away from him. Even worse would be if he sniffs out our hand strength, realizes he is beat and lays his hand down.

So unless he really has a strong king or a big draw or some other big hand we are not getting called which is why check shoving is not ideal. This case luckily villain had TPTK and so we got paid in full but that won't be the case all the time. :D
 
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GWU73

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I prefer just calling the 3bet pre flop. By putting 1/4 of your stack in pre flop you are putting yourself in a tough spot if you get shoved on. You also risk a lot when you miss the flop and an A or K comes.

As played, I prefer leading, but check raising is not terrible if you opponent is likely to fold hands like AQ or JJ to your bet, but bet if you check. AK AA & KK (most likely hands by far) are never folding so you do not really lose any value vs. them.

Well, not so much value if you were coolered by KK.
 
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Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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I like the play

Because our villain did call behind our 4bet.

1. He has a problem with his hand by calling behind the 4bet.

2. It looks like TT, JJ, AK in his range by calling back.

3. It is a wet board and we are out of position. Though if he had AK diamonds or a heavy draw it could turn into a flip with straight/flush possibities

But I think its best played cuz we are OOP and it just gets rid of all the complicated decisions on the later streets by check-shoving
 
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greedisgood

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You'd better cbet the flop here.

+1 wet board and 4bet pot, would be nicer to get the money in this way on the flop or turn instead of looking strong by c/r.

still, make a note on villain as he gets quite attached with premiums&TPTK
 
F Paulsson

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I prefer just calling the 3bet pre flop. By putting 1/4 of your stack in pre flop you are putting yourself in a tough spot if you get shoved on. You also risk a lot when you miss the flop and an A or K comes.

This doesn't sound like good advice to me. Calling the 3b preflop comes with three problems:

1. We're out of position for any flop that comes. The more money is in the pot, the less of a problem position becomes.
2. QQ is a hand we should want to play for stacks preflop. Or at least, back in the day when I still played poker, it sure was.
3. Did I mention we're out of position?

And yes, c-bet the flop. Size it so that he feels he has fold equity if he shoves (although that's hard given that the pot is ~50bb with 75 left behind). Nothing you beat will want to play with you anymore after this anyway, other than as a (semi-)bluff.
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

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This doesn't sound like good advice to me. Calling the 3b preflop comes with three problems:

1. We're out of position for any flop that comes. The more money is in the pot, the less of a problem position becomes.
2. QQ is a hand we should want to play for stacks preflop. Or at least, back in the day when I still played poker, it sure was.
3. Did I mention we're out of position?

And yes, c-bet the flop. Size it so that he feels he has fold equity if he shoves (although that's hard given that the pot is ~50bb with 75 left behind). Nothing you beat will want to play with you anymore after this anyway, other than as a (semi-)bluff.


Thanks for posting!
Are you playing at all these days? (recreationally?)
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

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The occasional poker tournament at work. Like twice a year. :)
 
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