$5 NLHE 6-max: Check raise? Or just call?

Alucard

Alucard

Santoryu
Silver Level
Joined
May 7, 2017
Total posts
3,235
Chips
0
I'd usually keep on betting but thought of trying checking the turn to balance out my bluff range cause people like to stab on the turn

If I'd check call here, should I lead river or let him barrel again??

Foldto3bet - 1/1
AF = unknown

pokerstars - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

BTN: 308.2 BB (VPIP: 14.94, PFR: 7.47, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 177)
Hero (SB): 621 BB
BB: 80.6 BB (VPIP: 22.06, PFR: 20.59, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 138)
UTG: 304.2 BB (VPIP: 32.89, PFR: 21.05, 3Bet Preflop: 12.90, Hands: 78)
MP: 116.6 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 18)
CO: 100 BB (VPIP: 20.41, PFR: 16.05, 3Bet Preflop: 6.20, Hands: 941)

Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 3c 3d
fold, MP raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 11 BB, fold, MP calls 8 BB

Flop : (23 BB, 2 players) 5c 9c 3h
Hero bets 10 BB, MP calls 10 BB

Turn : (43 BB, 2 players) Js
Hero checks, MP bets 28 BB,
 
oneloy

oneloy

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 11, 2017
Total posts
278
Chips
0
Understood nothing. Did you raise the turn on the turn? If yes, what problems? You have an excellent hand ...
 
S

Sidetracked

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Total posts
1,294
Awards
2
Chips
0
1) Why 3 bet pf?2) Continue betting on the turn with the flush draw and the wheel draw out there
 
Alucard

Alucard

Santoryu
Silver Level
Joined
May 7, 2017
Total posts
3,235
Chips
0
1) Why 3 bet pf?2) Continue betting on the turn with the flush draw and the wheel draw out there

1. Because it's a profitable move & I get the initiative OOP
2. Explained above. That's how the general player pool plays. 3bet oop> missed flop> try to take it down by a cbet> doesn't work so gives up on turn> The v tries to take it down by adding some bluffs
 
Zasto

Zasto

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Total posts
40
Chips
0
You want to have balanced range on nl5 ? Where players are so bad. Nl2, 5, 10 is pure value betting..
 
G

Gabe16

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Total posts
156
Chips
0
1. Because it's a profitable move & I get the initiative OOP

2. Explained above. That's how the general player pool plays. 3bet oop> missed flop> try to take it down by a cbet> doesn't work so gives up on turn> The v tries to take it down by adding some bluffs



How have you proven this to be profitable?

I think this is a set mining situation as a default. What am I missing?
 
nucl

nucl

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 28, 2014
Total posts
182
Chips
0
I'd say that you should check call on the turn and check shove the river if flush doesn't come or check call if the river is a club.
By check raising the turn villain will fold all of his floats and probably his FDs. So giving him the chance to hang himself on the river is more profitable. Yes he will check back the river with some showdown value hands but I don't think those hands will call a turn c/r or a big lead on the river.
 
P

PezPlaysPoker

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 19, 2017
Total posts
40
Chips
0
Hey, just been going through your thread, really been enjoying it.

With regards to pre-flop, I've recently been reading up on how much more we should 3bet rather than call with certain hands in the SB against an open. It definitely appears to be because as we are very likely to be OOP, we can at least take initiative. I don't know if I would do it much with 33, but to do it from time-to-time seems fine to me.

You flop a set and he calls your C-bet. You check the turn and he bets out 2/3 pot.

When he bets the turn, I'm thinking we can put him on either J9, JX, a FD and OC's, TP and FD, maybe TT, and we lose to JJ (maybe), 55 and 99.


We don't have many hands on the opponent so while has has TAG stats I can't be sure they are accurate. I would personally 2-barrel the turn, as I feel TP+FD, FD&OC's and JX would at least call, with a possibility of shoving. We'd get J9 to shove and if he has a set it's a sick spot.


As played, I would check/call and depending on the river, either check/shove if it's a blank (i.e does not fill the flush) or check/call a small bet only, if a flush card hits.
 
Alucard

Alucard

Santoryu
Silver Level
Joined
May 7, 2017
Total posts
3,235
Chips
0
yeah both you guys are probably right.Let's see if this continues
 
Jillychemung

Jillychemung

Stacks & Stacks
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Total posts
8,250
Awards
1
Chips
124
That's a really dry board and the J does hit some of villains float range maybe giving her an added st8 draw. I like the turn x/c making it look like you've 3-bet with AK/AQ, did the standard c-bet and just have to see the river with 2 overs. River action all depends on the run out. I agree that a x/r here just blows away a lot of weaker hands that may stab again on the river.
 
CRStals

CRStals

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jan 14, 2016
Total posts
7,221
Awards
21
Chips
948
I'm with you Alucard, I've seen it enough on a three bet pre where the board favours the range of the caller, the raiser cbets, gets called, the turn is a brick and the villian attacks with a bluff range very wide.

Trouble is, if you check call I don't know if villian gives up. I think you're better to lead small on the river and hope for a raise back.
 
C

CuddlyBobcat30

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 11, 2017
Total posts
35
Chips
0
Me personally I wouldn’t be raising pocket trays in the SB, and if I flopped a set I would be betting more towards 3/4 pot rather than half pot. Your hand is already pretty well disguised on a flop like that, there’s not much reason that he should be putting you on a set of 3s so why not make a bigger more bluffy looking bet for value
 
P

PezPlaysPoker

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 19, 2017
Total posts
40
Chips
0
there’s not much reason that he should be putting you on a set of 3s so why not make a bigger more bluffy looking bet for value

I think with a small sample of hands we can't yet be sure if he considers a larger bet as a bluff. We'll need notes on him or stats that suggest he isn't folding mediocre hands with s significant hand sample. But yeah if he does that it should be a play to strongly consider.

Just to ask Alucard, as I haven't played poker properly for a while, what is the general level of players at 10NL today?
 
Alucard

Alucard

Santoryu
Silver Level
Joined
May 7, 2017
Total posts
3,235
Chips
0
Just to ask Alucard, as I haven't played poker properly for a while, what is the general level of players at 10NL today?

I haven't played 10NL very much & not at stars.
I'd say the players are decent at the big sites like stars & party
 
C

CuddlyBobcat30

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 11, 2017
Total posts
35
Chips
0
I think with a small sample of hands we can't yet be sure if he considers a larger bet as a bluff. We'll need notes on him or stats that suggest he isn't folding mediocre hands with s significant hand sample. But yeah if he does that it should be a play to strongly consider.

Just to ask Alucard, as I haven't played poker properly for a while, what is the general level of players at 10NL today?



I mean if he considers a smaller bet as a bluff then he would also consider a larger bet as a bluff? There’s only a few hands he could sensibly float with in position, and if he has a hand he wants to continue with then he will be calling whether you bet 1/2 pot or 3/4, so why not go for value? What hands is he calling 1/2 pot with that he isn’t calling 3/4 pot?
 
B

braveslice

Pull-ups!
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Total posts
1,988
Chips
0
Would you say that they stab usually only once on the turn with air? So you got your value from air, now what is left is to get full value from draws (possible also TP sometimes) by raising, given everyone seems to hate check raises to the point that you might get wider value than logical range is, also raising here imitates aggressive fish line with draw, and also people like to put players on the draw during aggression peaks (can't really fault them about that).
 
Serjo600

Serjo600

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 18, 2013
Total posts
1,224
Awards
1
Chips
1
uconverter normal hand or lay out a screen, not readable.
 
Top