$5 NLHE 6-max: AK facing cold 5-bet 200BB deep

S

ScottishMatt

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 20, 2012
Total posts
2,394
Chips
0
poker stars $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 2229178
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN: $5.36
Hero (SB): $9.63
BB: $9.43
UTG: $5.84
MP: $11.39
CO: $5.00

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is SB with K
club.gif
A
club.gif

1 fold, MP raises to $0.15, 1 fold, BTN raises to $0.30, Hero raises to $1, BB raises to $3.45, 3 folds

PFR is a reg. The 3-bettor is a fish, hence our large 4-bet sizing. The guy who 5-bet me is playing 18/11 over 200 hands, what I would classify as a bad reg, more of a caller than a raiser. I pretty much snap folded this, I'm assuming you do the same?
 
Aleksei

Aleksei

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Total posts
1,527
Chips
0
What's his 5bet+ stat?

We block half of AA/KK/AK type hands, so we're flipping versus the rest of his range (and we're ahead if he ever does this with AQ), and we're getting 2:1. I'd flat and then fist-pump check jam any Axx/Kxx flop since he has AA/KK so rarely.
 
Last edited:
S

ScottishMatt

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 20, 2012
Total posts
2,394
Chips
0
Only 200 hands. His 3-bet is 9 and I'm not sure about his 4-bet, CBA to check right now. Don't even know if I have a 5-bet stat on him yet. Pretty sure his stackoff range pre is going to be AK/QQ+ however given the action don't we think it's tighter than that. Looking at his stats he is more passive than aggressive. Maybe I was wrong but I just don't think that a passive nitty-reg is cold 5-betting us 200BB deep with his standard stackoff range.
 
J

js520

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Total posts
292
Chips
0
can't see him turning up with anything other than KK/AA here so this deep yea I'm definitely folding
 
Aleksei

Aleksei

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Total posts
1,527
Chips
0
js520 said:
can't see him turning up with anything other than KK/AA here so this deep yea I'm definitely folding
Click to expand...
He could turn up with QQ and AK. If he has QQ+ then QQ is half of his range, if he has QQ+/AKs then QQ and AK is 3/5 of his range, and then if he has AKo in his range QQ and AK is 3/4 of his range. And it's very very rare for even the nittiest players to not 5bet at least QQ.

Also if it's unknown whether he can have worse than KK we should flat anyway, because we're getting 2:1. We should only fold, exploitatively, if we KNOW FOR A FACT he can never have QQ here.
 
Last edited:
TylerN

TylerN

Kool-Aid & Frozen Pizza
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 2, 2009
Total posts
3,728
Chips
0
flatting 70bb raise oop.............and then jamming any Axx/Kxx.........
 
Deco

Deco

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 7, 2009
Total posts
2,544
Chips
0
I Insta-fold this.
I need quite n aggressive dynamic to stack AK off for 200bb. We're against a nit and a cold 5bet.

Naturally as you've posted this he's going to split with the fish when they both stack AQ or something bizarre but that's just a very very unlikely possibility coming true. I don't think this is close.
 
Aleksei

Aleksei

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Total posts
1,527
Chips
0
Dude we're getting 2:1. Do you have any idea how many nut hands are blocked off by AK?
 
D

doomasiggy

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Total posts
1,915
Chips
0
If this was full ring I'd be fine with folding, but 6max? I feel like we should flat call in position here rather than fold.
 
Aleksei

Aleksei

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Total posts
1,527
Chips
0
If this was FR and it was folded to the HJ the dynamic would be the exact same.
 
TylerN

TylerN

Kool-Aid & Frozen Pizza
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 2, 2009
Total posts
3,728
Chips
0
Aleksei said:
Dude we're getting 2:1. Do you have any idea how many nut hands are blocked off by AK?
Click to expand...

and do you have any idea how often a 18/11 is cold 5betting QQ?
 
Aleksei

Aleksei

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Total posts
1,527
Chips
0
I figure anyone who 5bets KK deep will 5bet QQ -- they're the same type of hand, basically, and reraises with those two occur for the same reason in a deep dynamic: to deny a speculative hand running a semibluff or whatever odds to see a flop and draw out on us.
 
pocketehs

pocketehs

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Total posts
1,255
Chips
0
Aleksei said:
What's his 5bet+ stat?

We block half of AA/KK/AK type hands, so we're flipping versus the rest of his range (and we're ahead if he ever does this with AQ), and we're getting 2:1. I'd flat and then fist-pump check jam any Axx/Kxx flop since he has AA/KK so rarely.
Click to expand...

remember to read the disclaimer everyone lol
 
Aleksei

Aleksei

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Total posts
1,527
Chips
0
I just think it's really really exploitative to fold this when we have blockers and we're getting 2:1 to call. We have to be completely sure that he's not doing this with less than KK ever.

I find it funny, incidentally, that in a very similar situation about a month ago I was berated for telling the guy not to shove in a spot like this in HU, because the odds then were not quite as compelling as they are here but hurrp, we're HU so we shove AK always.
 
B

baudib1

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Total posts
6,635
Chips
0
The fact that you don't understand how different the two scenarios are is pretty amazing. Incidentally, we should fold here when we get cold 4-bet let alone cold 5-bet. You are running into AA like 90% of the time here and when you aren't, you're running into KK with 1-2 outs because UTG had AQ.
 
Aleksei

Aleksei

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Total posts
1,527
Chips
0
baudib1 said:
The fact that you don't understand how different the two scenarios are is pretty amazing.
Click to expand...
I do understand they're different. In one scenario we have good pot odds (this one) and in the other we had shitty pot odds (that one). The fact that one was heads-up is meaningless because Villain was playing so tight he might as well have been playing FR.

Also we don't run into AA 90% of the time and KK 10% of the time. If he just has AA/KK we run into both with the same frequency. If the flop comes down Axx then we run into KK 3 times more often than AA because there is exactly one instance of AA he can have.
 
MisterLongFace

MisterLongFace

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 8, 2012
Total posts
408
Chips
0
you had me at fist pump check jam
 
B

baudib1

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Total posts
6,635
Chips
0
Aleksei said:
I do understand they're different. In one scenario we have good pot odds (this one) and in the other we had shitty pot odds (that one). The fact that one was heads-up is meaningless because Villain was playing so tight he might as well have been playing FR.

Also we don't run into AA 90% of the time and KK 10% of the time. If he just has AA/KK we run into both with the same frequency. If the flop comes down Axx then we run into KK 3 times more often than AA because there is exactly one instance of AA he can have.
Click to expand...

lol@ good pot odds

You don't run into AA/KK at the same frequency because he may not even 5-bet KK 200 BBs deep.
2-1 is not good enough odds to play if he always has KK.

lol@flatting 70 BBs pre and getting it in good and get paid off when we check-jam Kxx/Axx
 
Deco

Deco

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 7, 2009
Total posts
2,544
Chips
0
baudib1 said:
lol@ good pot odds


lol@flatting 70 BBs pre and getting it in good and get paid off when we check-jam Kxx/Axx
Click to expand...

Ditto.

Even if villains range was {AK, QQ+} I still fold. I haven't the equity to get it in and flatting does not release that equity.

Your not getting to release AK's 30% equity vs KK your drawing to 3outs on the flop.

Your king outs have incredible reverse implied odds as your three kings get you stacked vs AA. I'd sooner set mine than ace mine.
 
Top