$5 NLHE 6-max: AA vs. ??

dg1267

dg1267

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$5 NL HE 6-max: AA vs. ??

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 41/11/0.6

I've been playing around a 18/11/1.5 game and I've been on the table for about 75-100 hands. VAZQUEZ1 has been there most of the time.


Stash186 folds
dg1267 raises [$0.15 USD]
yorkerinn folds
VAZQUEZ1 calls [$0.10 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7c, Kh, 4c ]
VAZQUEZ1 checks
dg1267 bets [$0.20 USD]
VAZQUEZ1 calls [$0.20 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7s ]
VAZQUEZ1 checks
dg1267 ????
 
M

Marginal

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stack sizes? I do not see why we would not bet here. He is going to be calling with much worse.
 
dg1267

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I'm sorry, forgot to add the stack sizes.

I had $7.25 and he had $4.62.

And I'm looking for bet sizing more than if I would bet or not. Thanks.
 
M

Marginal

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There is like 70c in the pot so something like 50c? Most of the hands he calls with on the flop will call on the turn, you have his range crushed and you want the most value possible.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Make your bets bigger against this guy. Bet .30 on flop, .90 on turn, and the rest of his stack on the river. If he raises at any point you fold but you definitely want to get stacks in if he's just calling and by betting small you make doing that impossible.

As played bet pot (~.70) on the turn, he's not the type to fold anything he called the flop with so make him pay the max. If called bet $2 on the river.
 
dg1267

dg1267

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Make your bets bigger against this guy. Bet .30 on flop, .90 on turn, and the rest of his stack on the river. If he raises at any point you fold but you definitely want to get stacks in if he's just calling and by betting small you make doing that impossible.

As played bet pot (~.70) on the turn, he's not the type to fold anything he called the flop with so make him pay the max. If called bet $2 on the river.


I've never made pot sized bets really. Are you saying this because of the stakes? If so, I know why. It's just that I think that pot sized bets make it known what I'm holding, giving away too much info. But that's my opinion. Would it be more profitable over the long run?
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Not because of the stakes, because of your villain type. He's a loose passive calling station and these player's mistake is that they call too much. They don't generally think or care about the size of the bet . For example, I generally raise 3x preflop but if I know the player who I'm targeting will call more preflop I'll raise 4x or more with premium hands. This sets up the rest of the hand so I can easily get stacks in.

Don't worry about giving the strength of your hand away for a couple of reasons:
1) This player type isn't paying that much attention. They have 2 cards that they like and that's all that matters
2) Your doing it against this villain type all the time with your value hands (since you don't bluff the fish) so all anyone who is paying attention knows is that you're exploiting the station. When your likely opponent is a competent player you'll go back to your normal PF and cbet sizing.

As for being more profitable there is little doubt. In the hand you posted think of the hands a calling station might hold that he would call a 2/3 pot bet but fold to a PSB. That range is narrow to non-existent, so exploit his weakness and get all you can.
 
dg1267

dg1267

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Not because of the stakes, because of your villain type. He's a loose passive calling station and these player's mistake is that they call too much. They don't generally think or care about the size of the bet . For example, I generally raise 3x preflop but if I know the player who I'm targeting will call more preflop I'll raise 4x or more with premium hands. This sets up the rest of the hand so I can easily get stacks in.

Don't worry about giving the strength of your hand away for a couple of reasons:
1) This player type isn't paying that much attention. They have 2 cards that they like and that's all that matters
2) Your doing it against this villain type all the time with your value hands (since you don't bluff the fish) so all anyone who is paying attention knows is that you're exploiting the station. When your likely opponent is a competent player you'll go back to your normal PF and cbet sizing.

As for being more profitable there is little doubt. In the hand you posted think of the hands a calling station might hold that he would call a 2/3 pot bet but fold to a PSB. That range is narrow to non-existent, so exploit his weakness and get all you can.

Fair enough. I'll start doing that then. :)
 
dg1267

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Okay, here's the next part. I'm pretty sure I know what everyone is gonna say, but I'll let it run for a while then post my end results.

***** Hand History for Game 17138397248 ***** (Full Tilt)
$5.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, December 27, 11:02:15 ET 2009
Table Chord (6 max) (real money)
Seat 2 is the button
Seat 1: Stash186 ( $5.89 USD )
Seat 2: dg1267 ( $7.25 USD )
Seat 3: yorkerinn ( $4.32 USD )
Seat 4: VAZQUEZ1 ( $4.67 USD )
Seat 5: ScTekle ( $5.14 USD )
Seat 6: Melissa_poker7 ( $9.52 USD )
yorkerinn posts small blind [$0.02 USD].
VAZQUEZ1 posts big blind [$0.05 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to dg1267 [ Ad Ah ]
ScTekle folds
Melissa_poker7 folds
Stash186 folds
dg1267 raises [$0.15 USD]
yorkerinn folds
VAZQUEZ1 calls [$0.10 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7c, Kh, 4c ]
VAZQUEZ1 checks
dg1267 bets [$0.20 USD]
VAZQUEZ1 calls [$0.20 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7s ]
VAZQUEZ1 checks
dg1267 bets [$0.55 USD]
VAZQUEZ1 calls [$0.55 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ Ac ]
VAZQUEZ1 checks
dg1267 ???
 
M

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I actually think shoving is not a bad play on this river. He will call with any flush or 7, thats a given but the question is whether or not he will call with just a king? I probably just shove though or bet full pot.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Shove.

Wouldn't it be nice if a shove wasn't such an overbet? ;)
 
dg1267

dg1267

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Shove.

Wouldn't it be nice if a shove wasn't such an overbet? ;)

Yes it would be! And I so hate overbetting the pot, even with the nuts. It just looks donkeyish! And with the way I'm trying to set myself into a more productive way of playing, shoving was just out of the question here for me.

I've really been working on my game a lot. I took a couple of months off this last summer and didn't play at all. Then, I jumped back in and started doing pretty well. But unfortunately I slumped back into some old habits and now I'm trying to nip them in the bud.:eek:
 
dg1267

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Okay, not much interest in this one, so I'll post the end result. I ended up winning when he called and turned over junk. After hearing your opinions it makes more sense as to why I should be betting more. I still don't think I'll overbet/shove, but I'll definitely start looking at pot sized bets more frequently.

***** Hand History for Game 17138397248 ***** (Full Tilt)
$5.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, December 27, 11:02:15 ET 2009
Table Chord (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Seat 1: Stash186 ( $5.89 USD )
Seat 2: dg1267 ( $7.25 USD )
Seat 3: yorkerinn ( $4.32 USD )
Seat 4: VAZQUEZ1 ( $4.67 USD )
Seat 5: ScTekle ( $5.14 USD )
Seat 6: Melissa_poker7 ( $9.52 USD )
yorkerinn posts small blind [$0.02 USD].
VAZQUEZ1 posts big blind [$0.05 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to dg1267 [ Ad Ah ]
ScTekle folds
Melissa_poker7 folds
Stash186 folds
dg1267 raises [$0.15 USD]
yorkerinn folds
VAZQUEZ1 calls [$0.10 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7c, Kh, 4c ]
VAZQUEZ1 checks
dg1267 bets [$0.20 USD]
VAZQUEZ1 calls [$0.20 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7s ]
VAZQUEZ1 checks
dg1267 bets [$0.55 USD]
VAZQUEZ1 calls [$0.55 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ Ac ]
VAZQUEZ1 checks
dg1267 bets [$1.25 USD]
VAZQUEZ1 calls [$1.25 USD]
dg1267 shows [Ad, Ah ]
dg1267 wins $4.04 USD from main pot
VAZQUEZ1 doesn't show [Js, Kc ]
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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He didn't have junk he had TP up to the river and trust me this is the exact type of hand he'll call off his entire stack with. My guess is that had you shoved the river, despite it being a big overbet, and despite the Ace on the river, he will call a large percentage of the time.

The important lesson here is that stack size matters almost always. With a premium hand and a bad opponent you need to start thinking about how you're going to win his entire stack even before you raise preflop. I garentee that if you take a few seconds to consider bet sizing with regard to how big you want the final pot to be your WR will improve.

Have you ever read Professional No-Limit? There is a lot in that book regarding Stack to Pot Ratios (SPR) and how to manipulate SPR with your bet sizing.
 
dg1267

dg1267

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Well, by junk I meant he should have folded it preflop because it's an easily dominated hand. But I do see what you mean.

I'll look into Professional No-Limit. Santy Claus gave me some money, so I might be able to scrounge up some extra books for my collection.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Depending on your range (which should be really wide from the BTN) I don't mind his flat with KJ from the BB at all. Now if you had opened UTG it's pretty horrible, but against a BTN open KJ plays fairly well even OOP.
 
Implied Odds3

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i would bet more on the flop, maybe about .35.. and then bet about .60 on the turn... Then, make a vb of about $1.25 on the river if there are no scare cards.
 
ljove

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Make your bets bigger against this guy. Bet .30 on flop, .90 on turn, and the rest of his stack on the river. If he raises at any point you fold but you definitely want to get stacks in if he's just calling and by betting small you make doing that impossible.

As played bet pot (~.70) on the turn, he's not the type to fold anything he called the flop with so make him pay the max. If called bet $2 on the river.
and bet 0.20 preflop you will have less chances to get calls like 78 etc
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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and bet 0.20 preflop you will have less chances to get calls like 78 etc

No you won't, that's the beauty. If you think a drooler fish in the bb cares for 1 second if he has to call .15 vs .10 you're wrong. Any hand he'll play for a 3x raise he'll play for a 4x. And a single bb difference preflop can make a 27bb difference by the river if we bet pot and get called on each street.

Imagine we open for 3x and only the BB calls. If we then bet pot each street and get called, we can't get a full 100bb stack in (we get ~87bbs). We need to overbet the pot at some point to stack a fish. If instead we raise 4x preflop we can easily get a 100bb stacks in and don't even need to make PSB on each street. With good players averaging WRs around 3BB/100 winning stacks instead of 3/4 of a stack is a huge deal.
 
dg1267

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No you won't, that's the beauty. If you think a drooler fish in the bb cares for 1 second if he has to call .15 vs .10 you're wrong. Any hand he'll play for a 3x raise he'll play for a 4x. And a single bb difference preflop can make a 27bb difference by the river if we bet pot and get called on each street.

Imagine we open for 3x and only the BB calls. If we then bet pot each street and get called, we can't get a full 100bb stack in (we get ~87bbs). We need to overbet the pot at some point to stack a fish. If instead we raise 4x preflop we can easily get a 100bb stacks in and don't even need to make PSB on each street. With good players averaging WRs around 3BB/100 winning stacks instead of 3/4 of a stack is a huge deal.

Said like that, it makes a lot more sense to me. Math is not one of my strong subjects! From now on I plan on paying a lot more attention to stack sizes past what I have been, which was "are they a short-stacker or full stacker". Thanks WV.
 
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