$5 NLHE 6-max: 3-betting 10-JJ from the blinds how do we proceed on unfriendly flops?

ZenAndPoker

ZenAndPoker

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$5 NLHE 6-max: 3-betting 10-JJ from the blinds how do we proceed on unfriendly flops?

This is a 6-Max $5 NL Zone hand on ignition. Given that the raise was coming from the CO I felt comfortable to 3-bet here, where as I typically may flat in position against LJ-HJ open raises and fold/flat against raises from those positions OOP.

I typically tend to 3-bet about 3x with position and 4x OOP. Should I increase my 3-bet sizing, especially when OOP?

I feel fairly comfortable throwing sizable C-bets against one over card on dry boards when I'm out of position heads up, but I loose all my confidence, as you can see with my just under 2/3 pot c-bet, when I'm OOP and two or more over cards come.

These are low limit players, and although they player tighter on Zone yes, they still love to call with any suited or connected face cards. The fact that he did call my 3-bet says to me its more likely he has at least a queen or king in his hand.

But if I don't ever c-bet on these boards I'm sure there are time's I'm leaving money on the table because most players at this level will take a stab at it if you check it to them. Especially on the turn.

NL Holdem $0.05(BB)
HERO ($6.14) [VPIP: 25.5% | PFR: 20.1% | AGG: 25% | 3-Bet: 6.7% | Hands: 154]
UTG ($2.47) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | 3-Bet: 0% | hands: 1]
HJ ($4.8) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 1]
CO ($4.85) [VPIP: 100% | PFR: 100% | AGG: 50% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 1]
BTN ($2.51) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 1]
SB ($7.14) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 1]

Dealt to Hero: T:heart: T:diamond:

UTG Folds, HJ Folds, CO Raises To $0.15, BTN Folds, SB Folds, HERO Raises To $0.60, CO Calls $0.45

Hero SPR on Flop: [3.48 effective]
Flop ($1.22): Q:club: K:spade: 4:heart:
HERO Bets $0.76 (Rem. Stack: 4.78), CO Calls $0.76 (Rem. Stack: 3.49)

Turn ($2.74): Q:club: K:spade: 4:heart: K:diamond:
HERO Checks, CO Bets $1.01 (Rem. Stack: 2.48), HERO Folds

 
H

Haze of Spade

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I would do same as you postflop because the board favours you as the raiser and you do have some fold equity.
depending on the player pool i would either call turn to catch a bluff from a donk or from an aggro TAG or if the pool is very nitty i would just fold.
Preflop I would flat unknown villain in this spot but I 3bet very tight in general. maybe thats not optimal but it worked good for me at 6-max 5NL (zoom), it just makes things much easier.
3bet size, I use the same as you and and make it bigger when deep, you can stack off a fish anyway postflop no matter how big the pot is..

I hope my post is helping in any way! I'm not a pro at all but i have much experience playing 5NL, gl
 
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braveslice

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If we bet that flop, we mostly bet to get folds, we didn't get a fold, thus imo on the turn we just check fold. I don't see a lot of difference between a) cb b) c/call c) c/fold on this flop. If he is aggressive check calling probably makes most money, but then again hand has potential to come really hard to navigate profitable and one mistakes is costly.
 
H

Haze of Spade

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Thats right in most cases I think check/fold is best if the player pool is not super aggro but my thought is that the turn card is pretty good for us because now we have second pair and if we cbet no way he will call with worse.
so check/call is only way i think to get some value and i think we have some value cause from my experience people call 3bets ip whith any kinda hand, plus the same people 3bet any trash hand from the blinds, so he might expect us to be weak and just call our flop cbet to float with Ace high gutshot, small pair etc.

wait I thought a), b) and c) was on turn so never mind that post! but i would still cebt the flop 100% of the time
 
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braveslice

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I see your point there, however I feel that given your speculation the value against this kind of player is not in cases where we have 3rd pair, but in cases where we hit the flop. Then we let him to give us the money. After all this flop hitted vs 10% value 3bet range 70% of the time (or something like that).
 
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Kalamari

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i check cal flop in this spot-most regs wont barrel turns if called once without the goods -by betting i allow his ace high/worse pair to float me and then bluff me
 
C

cs_rlewis

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I think you played it fine. This board is not a good flop for TT so it's fine to give up sometimes. I 3bet TT as well facing a late position raise.
I would personally check call flop and then fold turn if villain bets again.
However cbeting is still okay because you gain some fold equity and is good for your range.
Preflop the raise size maybe a little high, id make it 0.50.
Your cbet size is also high. By betting large you force him to call with a really narrow range. Betting smaller say 40% of pot keeps his weaker hands in, say pocket 88 99 that he might float with.

Just these little things with bet sizing will see that your losing less in these sort of spots.
 
Hujiko

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For TT the flop is bad as there are two over cards would not CBet this particular flop. If there was only one or no over card I would typically CBet the flop. CBetting the flop would not lead to many folds as hes bound to have something on that flop.
 
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