$5/10 FL O8 6-max: KQ42 on button against fishy UTG raiser during HORSE game, line check.

$5/10 FL O8 6-max: KQ42 on button against fishy UTG raiser during HORSE game, line check.

LO8 is by far my worst game in the HORSE rotation, so I'd like as much advice as you can give me.

Overall line check appreciated, and I'm specifically wondering about these decisions:

1) Call KcQc42 on the button against one of the fish at the table, or is this a bit too loose even for 5 handed? I'm not sure how positionally aware this player is but his range might be tighter UTG.

2) Dry flop for LO8, is 13 outs to the near nuts enough to raise 3 way?

3) Given my flop raise, and the likelyhood of them having a set or a nine is low given the flop action/their hand selection, go ahead and bet the turn for fold equity, planning to bet any river that isn't a K or 8?

Reads:

SB is exceptionally tight preflop in the non-stud games, but is a solid reg.

UTG is a station postflop at LO8, and is a long term losing reg. Plays decent hand ranges though preflop though. Is a long term loser at the stud games at more than 2 BB/100.

I'm regarded as an action player, and I've probably got a pretty lag image with this group.

Absolute Poker, $5/$10 HORSE, Limit Omaha 8 or Better Cash Game, 5 Players

SB (Tight Reg): $132
BB (Bad Nitty Reg): $496.75
UTG (Bad Reg): $108
CO (Spewfish): $43.56
Button: $558.72

Dealt to Button Q♣ 4♦ K♣ 2♠

Pre-flop:
UTG raises to $10, (1 folds), Button calls $10, SB calls $7, (1 folds)

Flop: ($35) 3♥ 9♣ T♣ (3 Players)
SB bets $5, UTG calls $5, Button raises to $10, SB calls $5, UTG calls $5

Turn: ($65) 9♠ (3 Players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Button ???

1 - don't mind calling the button pf, even if we're looking for a fairly narrow range of flops for value. Obv a flop w the Ac would be ideal, but flops w 2 clubs, any A and 2 small cards are going to be attractive. We're playing a lot of non-nut components, but we're also in position.

2 - Not keen on raising here, I don't think our equity is strong or weak enough to raise, and we have no FE.

3 - T9, TT, and 99 are a big part of our range to raise the flop. Betting the turn should take down the pot often enough to justify the bet on its own - SB's range has more flopped sets than UTG's, but both have a lot of flush draws/overpairs/Tx in their ranges (and a few straight draws, but that shouldn't be a huge part of their ranges). If called again and checked to on the river, we should be prepared to barrel any card if checked to imo.

If we'd floated the flop instead of raising, this turn is a nice one to try to steal.

this is like the definition of a hand that is going to make second-best so often, i'd fold preflop even on the button unless the whole table was in.

i'd fold preflop even on the button unless the whole table was in.

Click to expand...

On page 190 of Ray Zee's book where he's discussing playable hands on the button, he gives 3 examples of playable hands. Two of them look remarkably similar to my hand:

2♣3♥J♥T♣
J♣J♦4♦2♠

He says they're playable provided the conditions are right. I'm not sure what the right conditions are, but position on a fish against tight blinds seems okay to me.

And with a hand that gets a ton of its value from winning shorthanded pots with say, kings up, the 2nd nut low, or a king high flush, wouldn't we want to get short handed rather than multi-way? My thinking is usually that you only want a multiway pot if you have multiways to make the nuts.

I'm not sure if this hand is profitable if I just limped it in a 4-5 way pot. However, if I can get 3-way or better yet, heads up, I think my hand reading & playing skill can add enough value to this hand to make it profitable.

Not keen on raising here, I don't think our equity is strong or weak enough to raise, and we have no FE.

Click to expand...

I'd like to discuss this in a little more detail.

Equity - We would need at least 33% equity in a 3-way pot to raise, so I ran a little sim. Not sure how accurate it is, since it doesn't take into account that SB's range narrows when he bets the flop. But its at least a starting point to discuss.

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi/Lo Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board: 3♥ 9♣ T♣
Hand |Pot equity
Qc 4d Kc 2s |40.56%
A2**, A3**, AA**|31.55%
A2**, A3**, 25%|27.89%

Also, a lot of LO8 is extracting dead money, and I fully expect UTG to call with 100% of his range. Thus I'm looking to at least make him put two bets in.

FE - I realize I have none on the flop, but does raising here give me more on the turn? It makes my range look stronger, but it also makes the pot bigger so my opponents have more reason to keep calling.

Other Reasons to Raise - Also if the turn comes poorly for my hand, I can sometimes take a free one. I fully expect to check back any ace or eight on the turn that isn't a club. Sixes and sevens are also not great for my hand. However, players donk streets a lot more often playing Omaha, so I'm not sure how much value this adds, and we'll often be checking back streets only when they don't improve our opponent's hands.

yeah it's not a hand that doesn't have value (although i'll still argue that both JT32 and JJ42 are better hands) but if it's your weakest game you should avoid marginal spots with marginal hands imo.

The flop equity is stronger than I'd thought. Come to think of it, SB's donking range into a fish UTG and lag BTN should be wider than normal and UTG didn't raise - hmmm...

I do think we buy some FE on the turn by raising the flop - but the turn card buys more FE than the flop raise I think, by eliminating low splits and allowing us to rep a fh. In a big bet game, calling ranges are pretty narrow - here, we're prob still getting called by pair+fd's, overpairs, and some Tx, but our equity is still good against a calling range.

Using the flop raise to buy a free turn card makes sense, agree that we're checking behind most cards smaller than a 9 and the flop raise is cheaper than calling flop, calling turn. I just love betting the paired turn, esp after the flop raise.

I'd be inclined to bet any turn A for the added nut low draw?